Episode 37 - Kicking Cancer's @$$ with Capt. Kevin Corbett of Santa Barbara City Fire and Capt. Scott Jennie (ret.) of the Firefighter Cancer Support Network
In this episode, Capt. Kevin Corbett of Santa Barbara City Fire talks about his journey battling stage 4 testicular cancer. From a Hospice bed to returning to duty, Kevin's emotional story demonstrates how far we've come in fighting cancer, as well as the importance of a support network. In addition to highlighting the link between cancer and the fire service, Capt. Scott Jennie (ret.), California State Director for the Firefighter Cancer Support Network, discusses the Firefighter Cancer Support Network's role in providing support and resources to firefighters diagnosed with cancer. The conversation emphasizes the importance of advocacy, early detection, and the need for firefighters to seek help and support during their cancer journey. Our next episode features Kevin's wife and daughter to discussing the battle from their perspectives.
Transcript
Peter
Welcome to the Firehouse Roundtable podcast, brought to you by the Ventura Fire Foundation. I'm one of your hosts. Peter McKenzie, retired fire captain with the city of Ventura Fire Department and my co-host Jason Kay, Active Battalion Chief with the City of Ventura Fire Department. We are going to bring awareness to real issues that face. Firefighters and their families, we want you to feel like you have a seat at the kitchen table, which every firefighter knows is the heart of the Firehouse. Let's get right into the episode. All right, welcome to another episode of the Firehouse Roundtable. Have a guest. Host today, so we have Jeremy Henderson, which a lot of. You know, former former. Guest on the podcast, which was one of our top breaking podcasts. Got that feather in your cap? Jeremy's also also a board member of the Ventura Fire Foundation, and Jason was unable to attend and Jeremy has a special connection to our to our.
Speaker 2
Yes, Sir.
Peter
Guest today, so we thought it would be perfect to have him. So Jeremy, Jeremy, welcome to your first time Co hosting the podcast.
Jeremy
Thank you. I'll be the rookie host here.
Peter
I'm looking forward to it. Sometimes I get tired of Jason. No, I'm kidding. No, that was a joke anyhow. Well, today we have two guests. So our first person we'll introduce is fire Captain Kevin Corbett with the Santa Barbara City Fire Department who has a little bit of history with our foundation. You was living in Ventura. I don't know if you still are. We'll get into that for sure. And then we also have Scott. Jenny, who is the California director and the national state director of the Firefighter Cancer Support Network. Who? If you're a firefighter in our area, you've definitely heard of these guys. So Kevin Scott, welcome to the show. Thank you.
Kevin
For having me appreciate it.
Scott
Thank you.
Peter
Introduce yourself to our listeners who don't already know you and a little bit about yourself, and then we'll. Move on to Scott after that.
Kevin
All right. Well, again, thank you for having me. My name is Kevin Corbett. I'm a fire captain with city of Santa Barbara. I've been with the city for 27 years. First nine years, I was hired as a police officer. Then in 2006, I joined the fire department. People always ask me, why did you leave? And first thing that comes to mind as well, you get the one finger wave where you get the whole hand wave. Everybody really loves firemen. You know, my dad was LA County Fire for 36 years and he stressed civil service, loyalty, respect, good job support the family through the fire department. I've been able to. Be an engineer. Promote the captain. Use are certified all the pretty much equals hazmat. UM. And along the way, had a had a bout with cancer, which I can get into now if you want.
Peter
Let's let's let's hold, because that's the crux of our story. So let's let's leave it there and let's let's have Scott introduce himself.
Scott
Well, thank you for having me as well. My name is Scott. Jenny. I'm with the firefighter Cancer Support network. I'm the California State director of the national state director for the network and our I'm I'm also a. Fire Service veteran 35 years in the fire service, retired a couple of years ago as a fire captain and paramedic from the Laguna Beach Fire Department. Our mission is to support firefighters and their family members if they're diagnosed with cancer and we're a nation nationwide network and we're building up into Canada and it's our goal to continue our support since 2005 to bring about cancer awareness education. And support for the fire service at large.
Peter
Yeah, awesome. Well, we'll get into that and I think this is a cool example. Of. The the Cancer Support Network in action and how it affected, you know, one of our local firefighters and and whatnot. But I say, Jeremy, if unless you have anything to add, let's jump into Kevin's story and kind of kind of go from there.
Jeremy
Yeah, Kevin story is actually how we first met. So I'll let him dive in there.
Kevin
Yeah. Well, thank you. So 2006, I got hired 2014. I had been experiencing just the worst back pain left lower flank pain. And I've been complaining about it for about 8 years actually to various doctors that I was going. To. And I got. Hey, you're lifting wrong. You need to do more stretching. And let's prescribe you some anti inflam. Inventories, so you know, they're the doctors. I just figured I was doing something wrong. And, you know, just live with the pain because, you know pretty much firefighting causes a lot of pain. Jumped to 2014. And I had. Been running around my house and I slipped and fell in my house and I thought maybe I broke a rib and I'm not willing to go to the doctor, but it was pretty painful so I went in and I got a chest X-ray. At local Kaiser in Ventura and you know, I made the appointment. I was figuring I'd be out there in about an hour and about 3 hours later. I still haven't gotten any results from my doctor. And finally, I walked down the hall and said, hey, you know, I got plans. Can someone come out here and tell me? About my X-ray, did you lose it or whatever? And the doctor came in and said Ohh nobody said anything to you. And I'm like no doc. I've been waiting for you. And so she came in and she had a strange look on her face, which was kind of concerning to. Me. And she said. Well, you have a abnormal chest X-ray. I said, well what? That mean? She says well, you either have valley fever or you have cancer. She's. That's what she said. And I'm like, well, gosh, I haven't been anywhere to get Valley fever. So I must have cancer. But I'm going to dinner tonight for my dad's birthday. Can I come talk to you about it on Monday? So I just kind of like over my head. Walked downstairs, got to my car. And I started bawling. I was like, what has just happened? You know, a ton of bricks couldn't drive. Called my wife had her come pick me up. Bringing it back. Sitting through that dinner that night, I didn't tell. Anybody just my? Wife. It was very difficult, very hard. And I knew I was. Going to do some follow up on Monday morning. Come Sunday night, about 2-3 in the morning. I'm having the worst back pain in my life. This is on March 9th and. She's like, we're just. Let's go to the yard. You need to go to the yard. You're, you know and. I started having like an anxiety attack and difficulty. And you know, being a firefighter, I'm like, I don't want to. I do not want those guys to come to my house. I do not want to put anybody out. We'll just drive to the ER at 6:00 in the morning. I'll just. I'll just hold off till 6:00. And I did. I waited till 6:00. And we went in there and they were doing an evaluation on me and the and the ER doc says, you know, we're, you know, not really sure what's going on. And I said my wife said, well, hey, tell me about your abnormal X-ray. So OK, let's think it's pertinent. So I told him. And they brought in a mobile X-ray machine right to me or something like that. And anyway, within an hour being there, he says, I I got to tell you, you have testicular. Cancer. And you might think that I would be devastated, but I was relieved because now I had validation for all this back pain and this suffering that I've been going through for. All these years. Well, that was confirmation from my wife when she was devastated and they did some more tests and CT stuff and came back and said I had stage 4 cancer. This was at CMH ER in Ventura. End up getting admitted and I was there for 28 days. I don't really remember too much about it. I had an orchiectomy. They took out one of my testicles because I had testicular cancer. That's what the diagnosis was and it it's kind of a strange thing. Testicular cancer migrates to your lungs. And I actually had a some little blip up on my brain too, that they couldn't explain. But that luckily went away. With some chemo. But a week after I got there, I had the testicle removal and I hope I got the right one because I. Only. Have one left but hasn't given me a problem since and then I started chemotherapy and if anyone has been on chemotherapy at that time, it was one week connected to an IV bag. And then you get 2 weeks to recover and you come back. And I did. That. For four weeks and let me tell you, when I got out of the hospital for the first time after 28 days, I bawled my eyes out because I was breathing fresh air and I felt like I had. A. New lease on life. Getting a little dry mouth if anyone else wants to say. Anything I could use?
Scott
A little break.
Jeremy
Yeah, they could jump in there. So I got a phone call from one of our Union guys saying, hey, there's a Santa Barbara City guy has cancer. We need to move a Hospice bed into his house. He lives in Ventura. So of course, I didn't really know any of this story.
Peter
Yeah, yeah.
Jeremy
Like sounds good, we answer. The call like we always do. Brother, Sister in need. We drove out. I remember we got the bed. It could have been in Moorpark where we got the bed. But I just remember.
Peter
I think it was. I think it was important because I was we were in here. I I was with you. Yeah, me.
Jeremy
Were you with me? Yeah, we went in my truck.
Peter
It was like. Four of us. And then.
Jeremy
Yeah. And we drove out there and we just didn't know anything. Like we didn't know. Like, is this when we heard Hospice bed? Like, we're basically moving to bed in for some farming to die in his living room. And it was kind of gnarly. But of course, we answered the call. Like, let's go. So I think Mendoza was with us. I don't remember who else we just few of us loaded up and where he just went out there. Grabbed the bed, went to Kevin's house, never met him before. Move this thing in the living room and we just, yeah, like kind of it was.
Speaker
It was.
Jeremy
Kind of heavy for us too, because we were like, man, we're moving a bed in for someone we don't know. And this is a Hospice bed. And it was, it was kind of naughty for us too.
Peter
Yeah. Kevin, was that when you first? Got out of the hospital after the first stint.
Kevin
Yeah, I I came home to a hospital bed. I had very limited mobility. And you know, when you're 2 high school daughters are helping you get from. The bed to. The bathroom and back. That's pretty, huh? And and yeah, Jeremy was actually designated as my liaison. So I had his number, anything that I needed, I mean anything. And I was to call him. And again, you know, firemen help people, they don't take help. It's it's very humbling to need to be needy. That's, you know, we helped the needy. And you have to get over that. You have to let people help you, and they're offering to mow my lawn and and and wash my car. And they got a meal train going and and Ventura City, Ventura County, Oxnard City. People from all over were coming and bringing us meals. And it was amazing because it took the stress off my wife. The hospital bed was key because I could not get in. One of my bed and it was very helpful and eternally grateful to the venture city firefighters, Jeremy. That's when I first met Jason Kay, and I knew Sean Sean Hughes from he was a Mrs. up in Santa Barbara when I was PD and I knew him. I graded to Ventura and we still keep in touch. But yeah, my department did some cool stuff for me too, but I will actually say that the fire family as a whole nationwide worldwide. I couldn't have more support than the local local Ventura City, County and Oxnard guys for sure. It was incredible. Internally grateful.
Peter
Yeah, I think. I think and that's awesome that you say that. And I, I I remember moving that bed into your room and into your living room. And I can't remember if your family was there or not. Yeah, I just remember it was, for lack of a better term, it was sad. I was like, man, you know, you put yourself in those shoes.
Speaker
Yes.
Peter
Because we none of us are potentially escaping cancer. I mean, hopefully we don't ever deal with that again. But everybody knows, you know, cancer firefighters get cancer and I'm sure Scott has some stats for us that will make us more depressed. But I think that when. We as a fire service really shine is not when. Everything's fine. People are running their calls. People are. Getting. You know, just destroyed with night calls and no one's sleeping. And people are grumpy and people are fighting with each other. That's like when we don't shine right when we shine is when somebody goes through it and needs something. That's when everybody like, drops all the nonsense, the normal stuff we squabble about and do. And we just get behind somebody. And honestly, I mean, I think it's just as therapeutic for the guys that are helping us. Is for, you know, Kevin, when you were taking the?
Jeremy
And it's at the same time, it's so unfortunate that, you know, we don't really see the brother and sisterhood until that. And you're like, holy crap, and it's a it's, I hope I never have to do that. But, you know, it's humbling experience. But that's when we all come together and we rally and we always do. We always answer the call for our brothers and sisters.
Peter
Yeah, if I could change one thing about firemen is make them more open to help because in the at the as the foundation we.
Kevin
Is that?
Peter
Deal with this.
Jeremy
I don't want.
Peter
To say all the time, but frequently where people have a need, they just won't accept the help, and they're basically telling us to get lost. And you're like, this is dumb and we need help. Just shut up and take the.
Jeremy
I feel like, yeah, yeah. Pete, right now on the door since its inception, and we sometimes have to kick the door in, not just knock like, hey, you guys need help? Like no, I'm kicking the door in and I'm I'm giving you help and it's it's.
Peter
You know.
Jeremy
The way we are, it's overbuilt, but.
Scott
It's it's. It's ingrained in our culture because we we are people of service. We give back to our people, you know and and when we we have a program which we'll talk about here in a little bit, a mentorship program which Kevin. Is one of ours. We always say we're a bunch of type A personalities. It's like the the mobile car detailer that pulls up with the dirtiest car. We don't ask for help because we're used to giving help and that's what we we need to change that thought process. So, Peter, you guys, you and Jeremy are 100% on track on that.
Peter
Yeah, and they don't want it. And so we've, we've, we've pivoted to going to friends and and and and family like hey, we know he's a mess. Like what does he need like let us help him figure it out type of thing. Anyway. Kevin, let's get back to your story. So you came home from the hospital. We put the bed in there and I know that wasn't the end of the journey. For you. What? What did it? Look like going forward.
Kevin
No, I had. I had four rounds of chemo at CMH and it's kind of like a blur, but it it kind of went fast. You really? It's a drag when you're in the hospital. The the nurses, the doctors and nurses are amazing. The nurses actually run the hospital and make sure that you're comfortable and they make your stay as as painless as possible. Definitely was always afraid of Narcos. Norcos. I didn't want any pain pills. I was always afraid of getting. You know, you ever have to get a catheter? That's not something to look forward to. And unfortunately I had to experience that a few times. But anyway, for my my daughter, my both daughters were going to a Foothill tech in Ventura and once every four years the school hosts the Saint Baldrick's event where the kids get together and shave their heads. So they did it that year and my. Middle daughter Courtney she. Getting broken up here. She shaved her head.
Jeremy
I remember that.
Kevin
And I have a photo of her in my hospital bed with me, with our shaved heads. It's one of my favorite photos, but. It's. Hard to look at. And my other daughter? She wrote an essay for some event and then the. Thousand Oaks area. About dealing with cancer in the family and. With other high school kids and she won. She won the event, unfortunately, but she got an iPad for it for her essay of of how it affected her personally. And you know, your dad's going through cancer and the world's turned upside down. And this whole time, this is bears mentioning my my department, San Barbara City was very supportive as well. I had hospital visit. They the Chiefs, came down my Tony Baghetti, who's in charge of peer support, he. Basically, did all the legwork to get workers comp to go through the process because you know you're lying. You're late in hospital bed fighting. For your life and. You know, Stage 4 is, I guess, pretty serious. My wife was basically told, like, you know, he's, you know, Hospice, he's not going to make it. And here I am, you know, this ten years after 2024. So Fast forward through the summer, they were hoping my numbers were going to kind of come down a little bit, but they were talking about maybe needing a surgery or additional. Staff workers comp kicked in. I was able to go to USC for my for my treatment. We actually had a consultation with Lance Armstrong's doctors. We met a guy up in Seattle who actually treated Lance and he said he would treat us. But he pointed out that all my family support was in the California and I'd have to be up there and it'd just be me. And my wife and what we do with the kids. But he told us about two doctors down in USC in LA that I could that he would personally go to. If. He needed to. So we met with them. And it. Was doctor. That's why, am I. He was a really funny guy, Australian guy. He'll come to me anyway. He was really funny. Met him, he said. I've reviewed your case. And if you do everything I say, I think you make a full recovery. And. I'm like, great. He's my guy. And then I met the. The cancer surgeon, oncologist, surgeon and my wife wasn't too stoked on him, but hey, he's Top Gun. You know, this is what you want. Guy working on you anyway.
Speaker
Right.
Kevin
They decided I needed a stem cell, high dose chemo, high dose stem cell chemo rescue which is pretty gnarly procedure, but in order to get rid of ready for that you have to do two additional doses. So now I'm at six rounds of initial chemotherapy and the stem cell high dose chemo rescues they actually. Farm out your bone marrow, I believe and. Basically, take you down where you have no immune system and you have to be isolated and it's it's a very difficult procedure and I had to go through that three times. And then after that was. Done. I waited around and I had to go through a retroperitoneal lymph node dissection where they had to take some veins and move some stuff around in my. Legs and I had a. 6 hour surgery that was supposed to be 6 hours was actually. 13. And I have a nice. Zipper in my chest. Now when I mentioned I didn't want. Narcos. You know, I didn't and. So for the first three days after the. The oh God. Well, the epidural came out, which came out a little early. I refused narcotic narcotics. They were just giving me Tylenol. And I had this open wound. And I'm supposed to be walking around the hospital. In day three, I just. Said look, I'm ready to die or give me some pet meds. I'm. I'm over it. And I so I credit USC for saving my life. But it all started at CMH right here in Ventura and the support and you know another break. I'll definitely get into firefighter firefighter, Cancer Support network, how how I was affected by them and then why I'm a mentor now.
Speaker
Yeah, what?
Peter
Got it. So amazing that you pulled out of it and I think we've all known people who die, all known firemen who die of cancer every. There's no one that hasn't known someone and it's almost like you have. It's almost like a foregone conclusion that it's going to get them because we don't. Honestly, I don't hear of a ton of people kicking cancer, right. It's not like, yeah, you got cancer and he beat it just like everyone else. Beat it like not a big deal. He got the flu. So that's not the case with cancer. And then you were you were in, you were in bad shape. Like, what does that do to your mental state? Like, what is that like like I cause I I put myself in your shoes. Like did all the things exposed all the stuff and just fingers crossed we don't die from it. But you're living through it like what is that like when you're in that hospital bed and you're like is this it I mean. What? What is that like for you?
Kevin
So the hardest thing about the entire process, and I would absolutely I would go through it all over again that nobody I ever know had to go through it at all. I I would and I'm thankful that it was me and not. Remember, but the hardest thing of the whole process was bringing in. The three kids. And telling him. What? Why? I was in the hospital. Why? I was. Going to be home, that was difficult any time it was just me and my wife I could. Be myself and I could. I'm not going to say have a pity party, but I could. I could show that I was scared and I was like, wow, what's what's going on here? I I don't know if I can beat this, you know, just stay positive. And I've heard people say positivity, think positive, think. Positive I had a.
Jeremy
Oil.
Kevin
And I hope this is clear enough, but it was keep kicking cancer's ***. And now I said that every day and all the time. And I also wanted to get back to work. I love being a fireman. I, my other motto was I got to get back on Big Red. Big red. That's where I got to go. And since getting out of the. Hospital. No matter what happens. My new motto is everything. Anything beats a hospital. That as I was in the hospital for over 100 days that year, it was miserable and it was. Exhausting. So anytime that I would have someone come visit me, another firefighter or whoever, I'd have to put on the professional face. Hey, this isn't going to get me, you know, and wow, you're really strong. Yeah. You know, I'm not too worried about it. A couple hours later, I might be, you know, bawling my eyes out or, you know, bar from my guts out in the bathroom. But I would never let anyone see the true grip that it had on me because I just didn't want to show them. I just. Didn't want to give into that. I don't know if that's the right thing or wrong thing to do, but it was just I just kind of keep a a stone face. My wife saw the real effects and it's it's gut wrenching. It's it's debilitating. It's mentally you're just all over the place. You're like some days you're praying for death, you know, because this really sucks and there's other days like, wow, this is not a. Worse than the flu, you know, but it affects people differently. And when they tell you, well, you're gonna feel good for the first five days after. But come six or seven, you're gonna be really down in the dumps. So I'm like, OK, five. I'm still. Feeling pretty good. Boom night. Time of five and you're just like miserable. And you know, they know what they're talking about. They know what they're talking about. If anyone's going to go through chemotherapy or radiation or whatever your treatment is, I want to say that you have to be. Your. Own biggest advocate. Have your relationship with the doctor. Have your questions. Ask other questions. Get second opinions. One of the cancers. One of the chemos that I had I I sorry I can't tell you which. One it is. Right now, but it caused me to lose. Hearing so as a result, I have to wear hearing aids and I'm able to work, but I have to wear hearing aids to go to work, and the doctor told my wife well, he can. Does he want to go back to work? Does he not want to go back to work because it was either? Going. To ruin my lungs or ruin my ears. And she's like, well, he probably needs his lungs to breathe and he can figure it out, you know? So. I got hearing aids. Hey, that's not the coolest thing, but they do help, so you got to know what the medication is going to do. Getting in the firefighter Cancer Support Network I had, I had limited exposure to the to the, to the organization because when I was new to the. Fire. Department, the association said, hey, we've got this sponsored event, you know F CSN down in LA, they're going to do this gala thing and you know it's a. All expense paid trip, you know, take your wife and go have a night out and, you know, socialize. It's fundraiser. OK, great. Sounds good. Dress up. Go down to the Sheraton in LA Universal City Studios and have a good time.
Speaker
Michael.
Kevin
And then they learn about this thing called a toolbox, which is basically a Scott can tell you more about it, but I've I've already thrown it out there. It's it's a. It's a big plastic bin to kick to contain all of your cancer paperwork. Any doctor visits, any receipts, what have you and you don't have to like, chase it around the house. It's it's right there. You've got everything there. And so, you know, you donate and you have a good time and you go a couple of years and you meet people in your network. After going for a few years. What happens? I get cancer. Wow. Who would think so? I got a mentor assigned to me, and I don't remember his name, and we didn't have the greatest relationship as far as contacting it was newer then. And so I had a few phone calls, but I don't really recall what they were, but I just didn't. Feel like I. Got the support that I needed initially. From that guy. And so I knew that if I got through this when I was done, I wanted to be a mentor and give back because I believed in the organization. The organization is amazing. I've met Mike Devon, the founder, personal. Brian Frieders, who's I think still associated with Scott. I know him. These people really are passionate about what they do. They want to support you just as you know, like they're essential. So, yeah, mentor after that. And I've, I, I love. It's a very exclusive club that I really wish there was no more members.
Speaker
Thank you.
Kevin
But unfortunately it happens all the time and just an hour before this podcast I just saw that an Orange County captain was listed as passed away. It's like. You know, so it's it. It happens so. I'm very pretty.
Peter
When did? When? When did. Yeah. When did you? When did you? Tell yourself I beat this. I I kicked it. Or is that something you ever tell yourself?
Kevin
Well, I knew I wanted to hear the word remission and I thought I was going to have to wait like five years and we're talking three years after when I was doing I you kind of graduate to four month visits to six month visits to annual visits. Once I graduated to an annual visit. And he said remission the doctor I was. Like, OK well. I must have gotten it, but up until I got out of the hospital like. This is this is going to sound pretty morbid, but. January, January of 2015 I went in for my surgery and that was the last surgery I had regard related to cancer and I had a weekend to prepare and. Get your fares in order if you will, but it was like, yeah, it's a routine surgery. This what needs to happen. I spent the entire three days planning my funeral. To the pallbearer, to the songs. I was terrified that this was going to get me. This was the end, and I'm it's shameful because I wasted those three days that I potentially could have been my last with with my family. But that's that's the mindset that I had, I. Because. I just if I'm going to go out, I want to have a. Good. Service you know, and that was. I'm glad. It didn't happen that way, but that's that's just it can take you to some dark places.
Jeremy
We were outside kind of looking in, you know, leaving your house and hang out with you and like just closing the door like, man. I just don't. Know what what is in store is going to be now and it's been it's been awesome. To to see you succeed and where you're at now. I mean, it's amazing.
Speaker 2
Hi I'm Austin folk, an engineer with the Ventura City Fire Department. I'm also on the board of the Ventura Fire Fund. An organization that supports firefighters and their families, the foundation produces this podcast as part of our mission, I worked with the foundation because I was witnessed to the help that it was able to provide to my family. The foundation needs your help. First, please subscribe and rate this podcast on your podcast platform. This helps us get a higher ranking. And more visibility for the show. Second, if you support the podcast and the foundations work, please consider donating. Every dollar helps us support firefighters and their families. There's a link in the show notes where you can donate through the website at www.venturafirefoundation.org. Thank you for listening.
Peter
How did you? How does this work? And this is I'm asking just from like a layman's perspective. I get cancer. At what point does do I interact with the the network? Like what does that?
Scott
Look like so how how it works is is, you know it can be word of mouth, you know you guys know Kevin or a lot of people in the Ventura area. Santa Barbara. No, Kevin. Kevin would reach would reach out to me and I'd make contact with them. You can go to our website. We have a just it's a QikLink. Fill out a form. Submit it. It goes right to that state. We have a state director in every single. State that gives the submission for the request for assistance from there, that state director will reach out to the individual. You can also call us on our 866 number, which is also on our website, and it also goes right to the state director to create that it took to do the request for assistance so we can reach out. And help you. Our goal is within 24 hours, we're going to reach back out. To you by phone, and we're going to provide two different sources for you. Kevin talked about that toolbox that toolbox is was the vision of Mike Debrun when he created the network because Mike Debrun at 39 in 2005 was given a a death sentence with a colon cancer diagnosed with stage 4. He's I'm happy to say he's he did the same thing Kevin did. He went to the right doctors, got the right treatment. And I'm happy to say he's just retired and living happily up in Idaho and doing fantastic. But his vision in the LA County Fire Department, it's spread nationwide. Now, as I talked about earlier. So we provide two resources for you as soon as you call us. Now everything is confidential. We don't offer financial legal assistance. We're nonprofit. We don't. You know, we rely completely on donations to get our resources out to the fire service. We provide two things. A mentor, which is a badge to badge, peer support system like what Kevin does. So it's a firefighters go through the same or similar. Answer. So if you had, say Peter, God forbid you got diagnosed with testicular cancer. Our Wellness coordinator, after you talked to the state director, we reach out to the Wellness coordinator. We get you that toolbox, which I'll go into the contents of that toolbox a little more in depth, but I'll also get a mentor for you and Kevin would reach out to you and the peer-to-peer. I'm, I'm sorry to hear that Kevin didn't have a great experience with mentor. Sometimes personalities don't always mix and we always say have you can you heard the words Kevin said, which advocate advocate advocate. You have to advocate for yourselves. And if you get a mentor and it's it, it becomes kind of a like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm a fireman. I'm a tough guy. I've gone through all this stuff, but. If you look at what Kevin you look at the emotions on his face of what he went through, we're only seeing this much right? We're only seeing a fraction of what he he went through. I I guarantee it was a lot more than what he's letting on. And I mentor is that cold. Big friend and at times becomes a real kinship type relationship that walks them through treatment from diagnosis, treatment and hopefully into recovery, and additionally the toolbox that Kevin said it's has hanging file folders for all your EOB's all the mounds of paperwork that you're going to get. Especially if you do a workers compensation case, it's going to house all of that. We call it your cancer box. Everything goes into that box. In addition to that, sometimes when you get a cancer diagnosis, you may have multiple doctors. You may have to go to a on a a dentist who's an oncology dentist. You may have to go to a urologist. You may have to go to a pulmonologist. So it's a we have business card holders and there to organize all that for you. We have tons of educational materials in there caretaking tips, but primarily we've created what's called the firefighters guide to cancer survivors. It's a 230 page manual written by firefighters who have gone through a cancer diagnosis. There's areas in there of questions to ask your doctor. There's areas in there to journal what the doctor's telling you. There's care taking tips. There's all kinds of information on our on each states, presumptive laws. So it's a wealth of resource for the individual and everything we do is free of charge. So Kevin, if I can ask you when you were diagnosed, you didn't know which which way to turn once you heard the word cancer. Did you hear anything else for the next 3030 minutes to an hour?
Kevin
No, that's all that's. You're just focusing on that's that's it. Just over and over and over. You're totally blank. Totally blank.
Speaker
Right.
Scott
And that's where that that guide comes in place where it can help you read your regroup as firefighters we're used to regrouping. We always have a contingency plan. Right? It's plan a Plan B. Plan C on the instance that we're doing. We want you to do the same thing with your cancer diagnosis through through your diagnosis, treatment and recovery, and you can use that manual to really create your plan. Because we do have to advocate for ourselves. In addition to the resources, we also offer free education on cancer, on occupational cancer best practices for your agency, and we provide support and boost at any events. And we were just recently at the last couple of years Kevin had us come up to the eight O 5 stash. And which was a great event and you know the brotherhood and sisterhood is very alive and and then that Ventura County, you guys are you guys are doing a great job. It's impressive and it's very inspiring to see. So thank you for that. You know when you but we also want to get that awareness out on.
Kevin
Keeps getting bigger and bigger each year.
Scott
Who we are, what we do and why it's important, you know, in our education, we talk about early detection. That's the key to survival. You know, you know, we need to do our annual medical stuff. We as firefighters aren't the best at doing that. Even if your department provides it for.
Peter
Yeah, I got some. I got questions. For you Scott, so. You caught me. I was a little not surprised. But you. You you said something very intentional. I think it is that the fire that this Cancer Support network doesn't provide legal or financial assistance. And I I'm assuming that's on purpose like did did you was it always like that or was that a progression over time how that look.
Scott
I know it. You know, we're a nonprofit. We're all volunteers, everyone, everyone that no one draws a salary, and we're in all like I said, we're in all 50 states. You know, we have hundreds of volunteers that that that work for us, including Kevin, Kevin he he's a mentor. But Kevin has also recently department liaison. So he handles anything within his within his department too. So we have lots of different volunteers in, in different agencies around the nation as well as our our operational group. We're not in a position yet to offer those type of things. We hope to get there. We're working on things, but you know, like I said, when we operate 100% via donations and that's how that's how we're able to get the resources, the resource resources out to the fire.
Speaker
1st.
Peter
Yeah. No, I I think it. Good, right? I mean we we obviously represent a foundation and giving money out is you know that's the name of the game. It's it's. It does get weird, though. It gets awkward right? When people asking for money.
Jeremy
Yeah. Running the foundation, I think we've learned so much you. We we made mistakes. I'm not going to lie. We've we've done some things. But you know we we have to keep creating different rules because we've never thought of things. And I'm. I'm sure you guys how long you guys been around?
Scott
We've been around for since 2005.
Jeremy
Oh, awesome. Yeah. I mean, every year is something new. And you know, you're always trying to do the right thing. That's the biggest thing Pete and I are trying to do is do the right thing and we learn something new every time, too, on what we should or should not do.
Scott
You know, you know the the big thing to to that, I hope this this podcast goes out and and it is creates more awareness of who we are and we're here for you where because a lot of firefighters don't know where to turn if they're diagnosed. It's a scary situation. You know, when we look at the line of duty, the stats, I mean just for last year alone, just what was reported to the IFF was 72% of line of duty deaths was from occupational cancer. That's it. That's only what we know. You know, if you look at the fire service overall, we know those numbers are are a lot. Higher because not everybody's IFF members. Not everybody reports it to the IFF, but you you know what it's it's also not exclusive to the USA Fire service. It's you look up into Canada. And just for last year alone, their line of duty, death stats are at 94. Percent. So you know those numbers are off the chart.
Speaker
That's crazy.
Peter
What are the services to retired people? Cause I'm assuming you know line of if you're on the on the line and you get cancer, that's clear. But like you retire a couple of years later, you get cancer and you're not in contact with anyone. That's kind of a weird thing. What? What are? What are the services to retired people?
Scott
So we have presumptive laws here in the state of California. You know our our services are for anybody in the fire service, volunteer, professional, retired. Doesn't matter, everybody if our services. But as far as I think you're asking the question about workers compensation.
Peter
Gotcha. Gotcha. No, no. I was asking what the what the Cancer Support Network does for retired people. So it's it's.
Scott
Ohh yeah.
Peter
Inclusive, OK, got you.
Scott
And your and your family members too.
Speaker
Yeah. Gotcha.
Peter
Question. So I forget who we had on the podcast. I can't remember, but there was a study out that they were studying and you might know, Scott, this is probably your your world. They were studying, studying firefighters who arguably have all this exposure to carcinogens and then they were studying another sample group that. The different profession, I don't remember what it was, had a a similar exposure to carcinogens and they weren't seeing the same cancer. Diagnosis in both groups and that they were, I don't know, don't quote me on it. I wish I knew. I don't. They were basically trying to attribute the firefighters higher cancer rates to the sleep deprivation plus all the carcinogens do are, are you aware of this study or can you expand on that because. I'm really curious about. Tell that what? What's going on?
Scott
With that, yeah. So, so then there's a number of studies that are going on. We've had four big studies. It's been a lot of studies in the fire service, but four big ones. You know, there was the one that NIOSH CDC did through Doug Daniels. They looked at 30,000 firefighters. That's where they determined that we as firefighters, have a nine percent higher chance of being diagnosed with cancer than the general population and a 14% higher mortality rate than the general population. There was a number of other what they call meta analysis, where they looked at like 50 different studies and they all, they all validated the same thing. And so the study that you're talking about sleep deprivation. So Harvard did a did a. A study I think the researchers name was Catherine Barger did a study of I think around 8000 firefighters and they found one that firefighters and as a whole have like 40, almost 40% of us have some type of sleep disorder, whether it's sleep apnea, restless leg, whatever it may be. But sleep apnea is one of the big ones. I mean, we all can laugh about it. We all can point to the people. In our firehouses that snore. The most well when they started looking at. Sleep deprivation as a whole, UCLA did a study. And I can't remember the name of the researcher, but he kept a bunch of people awake just one night, and they have. What's we all have? What's called NK cells or natural killer cells in our body? It's part of our immune system. And what happens is they regenerate, they fight off all this stuff. That occurs when we sleep. You know the old saying, you know, sleep heals. It's very true, and it fights off a lot of different things. They're saying just after one night, about 70% of your natural killer cells don't reproduce. So you then have the possibility of other metabolic disease that can occur cancer. Being one of. Them they're saying now that sleep deprivation can cause colon. I wouldn't want to say colon cancer, prostate cancer and breast cancer and and and at an increased rate. And that was through the the Journal of. Environmental science, or the Journal of Cancer that that that stated that the other thing to note right now when we talk about the science that's going on, we have a firefighter cohort study that's being done here nationwide. In fact, we're one of our vice presidents is on the board. That one and they're looking at female firefighters and they're getting different cancers than their male colleagues, and they don't know why. There's a lot of theories, ill fitting turnouts. The PPE is just not fitting like it does us. And that's one hypothesis. But they're studying that. They're also studying firefighters. Different ethnicity. And they're getting different cancers of their Caucasian or other counterparts, and they don't know why. So they're studying it. You know, the researchers through, I want to say University of Arizona doctor Burgess, Sarah Jankey and the the Miami Comprehensive Cancer Center are studying this now. Those results won't be posted. For a long time so.
Peter
That's that. No, that's good info. This just reiterates in my mind, like sometimes I wonder like why am I doing this foundation work cause it's you know it can be a lot of work and it's it's also 100% volunteer. But the reality is is you have this group. Of people, firefighters that. For the most part, you know, volunteer to do this. Job and it's a great job and everything about it's amazing, but they're just getting like all these terrible things just because they're doing the job they love to do. There's such a need for organizations like the firefighter can't support network like our foundation. Like we need more of these things because. We're just doing the things we love to do and we're getting hammered because of it, right? Like it totally out of your control. Like, you know, we can all do better or whatever. But just because you're doing what you're doing, you're more at risk for all these terrible things. And and don't even talk about your families who are suffering just as much as the firefighters. So it just it it in some respects, it's encouraging to hear that. You know this this work is. For a good cause and for a good reason and.
Scott
It it's definitely. It's definitely important what you're doing is, is, is huge. I follow you guys on social media. I I repost some of your things that I see and.
Peter
Ohh good you you and like about three of our friends.
Scott
I understand, yeah. You know the the, the, the other thing too is is, you know and Kevin can attribute to this, you know we talked you know we we as firefighters we kind of compartmentalize. You know cancer goes over here behavior health goes over here and the reality and all it's all together you know behavioral health cancer. All this stuff. None of us. None of us are going to get out unscathed, but we have to do our due diligence in in our total worker health. To prevent or reduce some of these things you know, I mean, I could go into a lot of different things that we have. We push out in our education if you want to hear it, I mean simple things wearing your SCBA from the start of suppression through overhaul, how many times do we take our mask off sunscreen?
Speaker
Sir.
Scott
You know, these are simple things we can do, you know, and.
Kevin
Turnouts illustration.
Scott
I.
Jeremy
Yeah, there's so many things we've we've evolved from and I do feel like a lot of the science is leading the fire service into, like, this job sucks and it takes a special breed to get into this job. You know, when I first started, we had one set of turnouts and you would wash it, you know, every you just basically hose yourself. Often have a nice day. And now we know. Like that was terrible. That was a terrible thing. Sleep deprivation too, you know? Minimum firefighter works 56 hour work week. Cal Fire everyone like 72 hour work week. And that doesn't mention the the mandates and everything else that's always been on the job. And you know, we're doing the sleep deprivation. We have a sleep class going on right now in the city that. One of our guys is teaching is a great class and the biggest thing I want the guys is not just latch on to how negative sleep deprivation is but take care of yourself when you go home. Like, don't don't drink a bunch of coffee, slam a six pack, whatever. Like take care of yourself. Get as good sleep as you can and you know the the hot Potter on the station at 5 in the evenings. Probably not a good idea. That's it. You know, you might get calls tonight, but you're not setting yourself up to take care of yourself.
Scott
Yeah, hundred 100%. I mean that's that's one of the things we talked about. You know we have risk. Doctors in our lives, every each one of us, some are modifiable, some are not modifiable. We know those the the cancer numbers would be extremely higher if we didn't really because we really do have a healthy worker worker, healthy worker effect. Excuse me in the fire service, you know we work out. We tend to try. Nowadays, we tend to try and eat right. We exercise, but you know there's other things we need to do, you know? Don't use tobacco products if you're using it, just stop. That's all tobacco products and even the nicotine pouches we. Know those are.
Speaker
We think you.
Scott
Know we all think we're invincible until we're not.
Peter
That one used to drive me crazy when we have. OK, we're doing all this stuff for cancer. We're going to wipe off our skin. We're going to do this. We're going to do the turnouts. Over here and then guys are chewing tobacco like.
Jeremy
Yeah, yeah. Really putting a dip in with cancer and you know, like. Certain other hands like that you.
Kevin
I got a story about tobacco.
Peter
Let's hear it. Let's hear it.
Kevin
So I'm in my hospital bed at CMH, one of the first. First visits there and I'm sure most of you know Tony McHale from Ventura County. Fire. Big, bigger, larger than life. Big guy. Big. Nice mustache. Well, Tony wouldn't mind me saying this because we're friends and this is the truth. He came into my bed and he looked he didn't come in my bed. He came into my hospital room and looked at. Me and said he. Touched me on my shoulder and says I'm going to stop dipping for you. I'm going to stop doing that. You know you you made me realize. And I'm like, well, don't do it for me, do. It for yourself. And to this day, every single time I see him, he tells me you remember that day. I'm still not doing it. I'm still not. I'm still not dipping. So I'm like, that is awesome. You know that I could, you know. And that kind of leads me into a mentorship. It's like I don't. I don't go and call someone up and say, hey, sucks to be you. You know, I don't offer them a guarantee they're going to make it because there's no guarantee I will tell them that there's no guarantee for tomorrow. Live for today. Live it like it's your last day and there's some St. cred that I can bring going through it. To let them know, like, like they're sitting at the fire fire table. You know, like how many world issues do we solve at the firefighters table, you know?
Peter
Very few we we think we. Solve all of them, but I think fair.
Kevin
That's very that's very therapeutic. And for me, I I love being a mentor. Because I I feel like I'm getting much more out of it than I'm offering to the person on the other end of the line, and I don't want to bother them or be a, you know, hey, you can text me. And call me. You don't have to reply back. I'm just here for you. I'll be a sounding board. Whatever you need, you know. And and I don't tell them. Hey, this worked for me. Or go here. Go to this doctor. It's like, you know.
Jeremy
Be your advocate.
Kevin
Get second opinions, you know, and and going back to my doctor's I I did remember Doctor David Quinn and Doctor Sia daneshmand out of the Norris Cancer Center at USC. Lifesavers. OK. And I know guys that went to the city of Hope. Guys that square by UCLA, you know, it's like.
Speaker 2
That's good. Good.
Kevin
Whatever works for you, go for it. We're just offering a service to help you navigate what you're trying to go through. Because I remember Mike LeBron telling me he's like, I get this diagnosis. What now, you know? And now we've got people that. Are. Able to help you navigate. And that's I think that's the. Best thing we can do?
Peter
Awesome, Kevin, question for you. Well, couple of questions. One, how busy are you with this mentorship thing? I mean, I would like to think no one ever calls you and but that's probably not the case.
Kevin
I I have probably just under a dozen people that I talked to pretty regularly, but a lot of those contacts, probably four or five of those contacts are just by word of mouth and not from Cancer Support network. It's like, hey, I know this guy at Santa Barbara had cancer, and hey, my buddy, can I can you talk to him and then I will direct them. So once I make contact to them back to firefighter Cancer Support network.
Peter
What area do you cover?
Kevin
I'll talk to anybody. We're nationwide. If we have no.
Peter
Ohh so you don't like you're not. The Santa Barbara guy.
Kevin
I have testicular I have testicular cancer, so anybody that gets that I could potentially be matched up with. Now there's probably other mentors that have it and they don't want to overburden anybody. But you know, every now and then we'll get an e-mail from Debbie, our Wellness coordinator and should be like, hey, I need a mentor.
Peter
Or OK. Gotcha. You're the guy.
Speaker
Sure.
Kevin
This guy's got this, this, whatever and, you know, people will say, hey, I can take that or whatever. And it's like Scott mentioned it also they're we're for the family too. So like spouses can be mentors as well, because a spouse of someone going through cancer. Could benefit from talking to another spouse, you know.
Peter
Yeah. So you, you bring up spouses, and that's exactly where I was going with you and not necessarily spouses, but the family. So you couple couple things, you one, you picked my answers when I heard you say my oldest daughter, my middle daughter, how many how?
Kevin
Absolutely. And and I apologize to my kids, for I should have started out that in the intro. I have three kids, I have Brianna, Courtney and Blake and my wife. We've been married at least at 25 years, and they're all doing good. But that was a very difficult time for them that.
Peter
Many kids, do you have?
Kevin
You know, my parents divorced when I was a kid, and that's a traumatic thing that you go through that you deal with for the rest of your life. I can't imagine the stress and what they deal with knowing they had to go through that and I'm, you know, I'm sorry they had. Add that.
Peter
Yeah. So let's talk. I want to talk about. Them a little bit. I think firefighters that get. Sick. It's clear and everyone knows this is a need. Kevin has cancer. Let's rally around him. There's network. Scott's organization. Clearly, that's what it's for. We're and not, not to say, and I do want to hear about that on this. On the family side with the network, does it sounds like you have a program, but our focus at the at our foundation is not that we don't care about the firefighters cause we 100% care about the firefighters, but we are trying to shine a light on the families at home because. They are less served than the firefighters themselves, and that's like the hill we're trying to die on. So my question to you is, like, what? And obviously this is a better question for your wife to. Be honest with you, but what? Was it like for your family to go through this? I mean, obviously it was traumatic. They thought they were going to lose Dad. Like, I can't imagine what it was like. And I was getting choked up. When you're talking about your daughters. I have three daughters at home and I put myself in your shoes. But what was the?
Speaker
It's.
Peter
With your family. What? What did the what were the things they said or what? What was their opinion of the support you got or I don't know what the question is necessarily, but if you can expand on that, I think. That'll be helpful for other family.
Kevin
This is just this is just my perception. What I remember, just like I said that I wanted to put a front up for everybody that came to visit me and not let them see what I was going through. I feel like my. Wife was a. Solid rock. She was my crutch. She got me through everything. She. You know what? At times, at times she had to take care of me in the restroom. I couldn't. I couldn't deal with it myself. Couldn't physically do that. There's nothing more humbling than that. I think she must have told the kids. Hey, be strong around your dad. Be positive because I never heard those kids complain. They're tough as nails. I always. We always want to raise them to be independent. Respectful. We just kept telling him, hey, we're we're not going to be here forever. You need to be able to, you know, deal with things on your own. Has it just, you know, before cancer ever got here? Like they're washing their own laundry at 8 years old? You know, they had chores. Whatever. They never complained when my daughter did get into the bed with me and she shaved her head. Mind blowing. My daughter writes the essay. Brutal. None of them ever like acted out or had issues. You know, it's like they were just great and. And the other thing too, you go through cancer. I always believed, hey, if your bones not broken, you don't have a thing to complain about and men don't cry. Well, after going through cancer I I will well up at a commercial. I don't have control of my emotions anymore. It's terrible so I apologize. But they're great kids and they I love them to death. And I love my wife. And she's she was my rock, Lisa. She got. She got us through everything. And and what anything could do. I love hearing your foundation say you want to support the family because just like we firefighters don't ask for help. They're trying to take care of us. That now. Oh, all of a. Sudden this guy needs. Help. Well, they don't. They put themselves on the back. Warner, you know, so a support group. I know there's, I think fire wives or some some women's auxiliary that mentor has. And I don't know too.
Speaker
Yeah.
Kevin
Much more about that. But like something along those lines, we're like, hey, we're supporting women or or firefighter spouses, and you don't just have to be Ventura City, Ventura. Local. Whatever. Come join. You know I've. I've seen some things out there and I I've mentioned before your podcast is really great. It's professional, it's top notch. And I really enjoy listening to it. You have great. You know, the episode with Jeremy and his wife was one of my favorites so far. So people just come out of the woodwork when you need help and it's it's really.
Speaker
Sir.
Peter
We're trying to get these stories documented because their stories in your Firehouse today of guys you've never met who were like 2 generations before you, who you just kind of are repeating because we don't have any first-hand, actual story from that person. How cool would that be if that never happened again and everyone could go back to? No, you want to get hired at the fire. Maybe that's part of the interview. Like, what do you know about our? People from the 50s. Oh, I listen to every episode of your podcast. I know all about them now.
Speaker
Yeah.
Jeremy
Yeah, I think a lot of people too, with the mental health, they think that they're struggling by themselves. You know, you listen all these, these different podcasts, whatever. And I'm the only one this has happened to. I'm the only one that's seen this. And no, you're you're not, man. Like people struggle the same as you. They just don't talk about it, which is what we try to break, you know, let's talk about it. Let's let's get it out on the table.
Scott
That's awesome. Yeah.
Peter
Well, Scott, Kevin, thank you so much for coming on. I have unbelievable respect for people who volunteer and I happen under no misconception that your job is not very difficult. I cannot imagine what it's like to counsel people who are dying of cancer or have cancer. That's. Tough, I mean. A lot of respect for both of you guys. For raising your hand and going. Yeah, I want to do this for free because. This is the right thing to do.
Jeremy
Another thing I love about the fire service you guys giving back, you know, I was giving you and you're giving it back and moving forward, making it better than when you you. Got there. And that's amazing man. That's off to both of you.
Kevin
Thank you for. Having us?
Scott
Well, thank you for your for your foundation and what everything that you're doing bringing about the awareness and everything. Keep doing it. It's great.
Jeremy
Make it.
Peter
So Scott, if our if any listeners want to find more about the firefighter can't support network, what's the best?
Scott
Way to do that, they can go to our website firefightercancersupport.org or they can also go to our 866 number. It's on our website as well. Very simple and they can look at everything we've got there. There's. Resources ways to get involved, who we are, what we what we do and and all about. You know, the entire network.
Peter
Awesome. And Kevin, same same to you. What? What can people do if they want to keep tabs on you?
Kevin
Well, I have an Instagram K Corbet 1982. All my appointments, all my opinions are my own. All my employers and I'm on fire, fire, Cancer Support network. I don't even do Facebook too much. You may see me occasionally. I do P IO stuff. Sometimes when I get to go out of town on assignments and. Been on some big campaign. Fires. I know anybody been trying to reach me, they. Know to get me?
Peter
Awesome. Awesome. Jeremy, you did a great job. There might be there might be a.
Jeremy
First one.
Peter
Future for you in this business?
Jeremy
Jason's got me. He's got me. I'm good with it.
Peter
All right, guys, thank you very much. Yeah.
Jeremy
Thank you guys. Thank.
Peter
Appreciate you coming.
Kevin
You. Nice job.
Scott
On thanks guys.
Jeremy
Yeah, he's kind of crazy here. And, you know Kevin's story, you know, cause I was outside looking in. I didn't really know what was going on, you know, with him or inside the house, you know, I would just come hang out with him and, you know, like I said on the the podcast, I would leave the house and I didn't really know, you know, the extent. I didn't know if he was. Gonna make it through and you know it's it's pretty crazy. Everyone's got a story that we don't like to hear.
Peter
I vividly remembered. Putting that bed in this house and then. I wanna say he was there like we. We talked, we met him. Right? You remember exactly.
Jeremy
I I went there a few times and maybe I don't think he was. There, when we first set it up.
Peter
I feel like I saw I was there one time when he was there and I was after I left. I was like, that's not good, that it's not going to end.
Jeremy
No. Yeah. No, I remember. Yeah, it's setting up like this is a Hospice bed. Like, we're setting up the last place he's going to lay down. I mean, it was. It was weird for us, and it was hard for us. But, you know, that's what we do.
Peter
Well. I mean that I can't. It's awesome. He made a full a full recovery back to work everything and then didn't just make a full recovery and go, oh, I beat that. No. Now I'm going to go volunteer a bunch of my time to.
Kevin
Yep, call Rick number.
Jeremy
Yeah. I mean, he's a he's a fire captain now, and he's giving back and it's it's just cool to see his.
Speaker
It's everyone else.
Jeremy
You. Know his progress.
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
Peter
Yeah, for sure. Well, Jeremy, thank you very much. I think you did a great job thinking I can take some time off now. And Jason?
Jeremy
Nope. Yeah, it's your guys.
Peter
Can do the podcast.
Jeremy
Podcast, not mine.
Peter
Anyway, thanks for everything you do for the foundation. We don't get to sing your praises much because you're you're not. On. Here, and maybe people will be more interested to hear you and you. And I talk than me and.
Jeremy
That's by design. That's by design.
Peter
Jason over and over and over again. All right. Till next time. Thank you.
