Episode 29 - Newly Retired Firefighters Captain Tom Weinell, Engineer Brian Kremer, and Captain Thom Hoffman Discuss Just About Everything

With 80 combined years in the fire service, newly retired firefighters Captain Tom Weinell, Engineer Brian Kremer, and Captain Thom Hoffman have a lot to say.  This wide-ranging conversation touches on the Thomas Fire, La Conchita mudslides, Jesusita Fire, firehouse hijinks, burnout, changes they've seen in the fire service, their experiences with retirement so far, and much more.  Many current and former Ventura City firefighters are namedropped, and many stories are told (a few made it past our censors). 

Transcript

Firehouse 29 - Draft 1.mp3

Transcript

Peter

Welcome to the Firehouse Roundtable podcast, brought to you by the Ventura Fire Foundation. I'm one of your hosts. Peter McKenzie, retired fire captain with the city of Ventura Fire Department and my co-host Jason Kay, Active Battalion Chief with the City of Ventura Fire Department. We are going to bring awareness to real issues that face. Firefighters and their families, we want you to feel like you have a seat at the kitchen table, which every firefighter knows is the heart of the Firehouse. Let's get right into the episode.

Jason

All right, welcome to another episode. Of the Firehouse round table. Recently we did some podcast. I think we had a two-part series on guys who just got off probation and today we get to be on the other end of that. So today we're talking to three, our most recent retirees. I think Peter and I both have pretty tight relationships with all three of these guys. I'm excited to have him on the show today. We have Tom Hoffman, Tom Wynell and Brian Cramer. So let's just start with how long you're with the fire department and how long I think you. Another and just kind of give me a brief bio of yourself, Hoffman. Why don't you start?

Thom

OK, I born and raised in Ventura, local guy started as a medic when we had our fire our transporting ambulances in 1996 for about a year and a. Half left there went to El Dorado Hills after that program was scrubbed and then came back here in 2000 and I just retired at the beginning of August. Of this year.

Peter

How many years total, Tom, how many years total?

Thom

Total in the fire service 27.

Jason

All right. Why now? Go ahead.

Tom

All right, here we go. My fire service career actually was a second career for me. I when I got out of college, I ended up going into sales as a broker. And I did that for about 7 years before I got sick of the cubicle life and decided to kind of follow something that had been a passion of mine. For a while, both my grandfathers were farming so. So I ended up going to Med school. Actually, Tommy and I worked together a printer and I got hired as a as an EMT for in the same class at 10 crudo and a bunch of other people did, and where we worked as EMT's prior to going medic. So we kind of started the whole ALS program for the city. I have been. I was with the city. For 31 years and I got a chance to participate in everything. I I did every specialty.

Jason

Just 31 years on, that's it.

Tom

Just 31.

Jason

Well, Congrats. You know and I'll like, I'll let cram dog. Go ahead, Cramer, let's give you your bio talk.

Brian

I I feel like the baby of the group because I only put in 22 years, so kind of got a late start. Kind of like Tom. I had another career corporate world suit and tie, but in 2002 thousand and one I decided to switch careers and you know, work for gold. Those ambulance for six months to the day went to paramedic school. They only had 4 1/2 months as a medic with AMR and then got hired in July of or I guess it was August, July, August of 2000. One with you, Jason and 40th Academy. So I feel like I came into the game late, like at 33 years old, left early at 55. So I only had 22 years in, but it was a great 22 years and worked at all the different stations and and here I am. I feel like the baby of the group with the least experience. So I'll let you guys talk more.

Jason

I think 80. Years. Is that right? My math. Somewhere like that experience. I'm. I'm sorry, Peter, I'm a genius, but I just get it right away. Yeah. 80 years of experience between these three guys. That's impressive. And Kramer feels like the baby of the group. I'd.

Speaker

I was. I was trying to.

Peter

Calculate it too. Let me do it.

Tom

88 Sir yeah.

Jason

Love to hear that.

Brian

You know I'm 55. I'm 55, so. I'm ready to read. I'm I was ready to retire.

Peter

At 55, so I I didn't realize Cramer that you and Jason were in the same Academy. So the the one story I want to hear, hear about and talk about. I don't know if we want to do it right now or not. It's going to be so much better because Jason was there so.

Brian

Oh no.

Peter

I don't know who should tell the story, whether it's Jason or Brian, but I want to hear about the the break dancing in the Academy.

Jason

That you want the you want the true story. Or do you want what Grandma's story?

Brian

Yeah. Go ahead, Jason. You tell it. You tell it better than I do home.

Jason

All right, so there was definitely one of the gnarlier captains that was teaching the Fire Academy. Everybody there knew that this guy was gnarly. So when he would say, is there any volunteers to do this? Is there any volunteers to do that? We would all like, hey. Keep your hands down. Don't. Don't raise your hand. Don't say a word. Well, Brian. Kramer being #1, Brian Cramer and #2 just not really having that experience of that background of family being firefighters. He's hand shot up every time immediately. I'm not sure how he. Found out this captain that you did break dancing. Cramp. But we came back from lunch one day and the whole cadre of. These just old. School gnarly captains pulled out this piece of cardboard and they said we hear there's somebody here who knows how to break dance. Let's bring them up front and get him going. And there was 0 hesitation from Cramer. He went straight to the front in front of the whole Academy. And I swear there were. Like there was a light that came from behind him. It was just it was amazing.

Brian

OK, going back, The funny thing is, when they said, does anybody break dance? I. Thought sure for. Sure. Rico. Gross, this guy that I knew break dance and listen to rap music was going to raise his hand, but he. Left me hanging I. Was the only one, so the next day. They brought out the beat box from the 80s. The cardboard and I just got into full character cause everyone. Of us had a character name like Rod Dingman was where's Waldo and Chad Burr was GI Joe and I was Cosmo Kramer and Jason. What were you again? I forgot for some reason Jason always hit under the radar in like the 4th row. So he got away with a lot but anyway.

Jason

That that's done pretty well for me in life, yeah.

Brian

The guy I felt like after that moment, like I did, have a connection with the cadre and the guys. It was just easier for the rest of the Academy. So sometimes you just gotta raise your hand and go. For it and see what happens.

Peter

That that's what I was gonna say is I figured you'd probably get a ton of respect after that. Like it probably changed things. How are you?

Brian

They liked it, so it made it a little bit easier the rest of the Academy, that was those were some hard days. Jason. I don't want to have PTSD. I shouldn't talk about the Academy anymore because that's brings back some some good memories and some horrible memories. But, you know, every day was like, they're going to pay us the rest of our life. We just get through this 18 weeks or whatever. So we made it.

Jason

It's funny you say that. Let's talk about a little bit about the differences, because I think we had three different experiences between the three of you guys with Academy. Tom Wynell, did you go through what Academy did you go through? Was that just a Ventura city only Academy?

Tom

It was a Ventura city in house. Yeah, it it was, I think only like 6 weeks. So it's basically OTJ and you know. Yeah.

Brian

Or was that?

Jason

Six weeks. Who is? Who are your instructors and The Who are the leads? Did you have like the no OK.

Tom

Frank Gordon. Yeah, we had gnarly knarley captains Brian Gordon, Neil Gadney, all these guys that were just ball Busters, man, they, they, they were gnarly. And every day was, you know, met with. Yeah, you're going to be fired because of this. And I think so. But I I kind of understood the game having grown up around a lot of that stuff.

Jason

Yeah, you said both your grandparents. Your grandfathers were firefighters. Where were they? Where did they work?

Tom

LA City and LA County.

Jason

Oh wow, did you have? Pretty tight relationships with them growing up. Did they mentor you? At all getting into it.

Tom

No, no, not at all. Matter of fact, they they couldn't make it a living doing that, doing this job. So they went off and did carpentry work. My one my one grandfather worked for like City. He did. He did do a full like 30 year career and then he died of cancer. Like maybe a year and a half off after he. So let's let's hope that Omen doesn't continue.

Jason

Yeah. And there's been so many upgrades in like SCBA's and responses. And, you know, all the stuff that we keep ourselves safe with nowadays, hopefully that that we get a little bit more enjoyment out our retirement. How about you, Hoffman? What? What was your Academy like? I think you went to one of the was it one of the first Ventura County? Guns. Or did you do a lateral Academy?

Thom

Well, initially I did the Ellen Hancock Academy. And Allen Hancock College. I don't remember when that was, it was like. In the late 80s, probably. And then when I. Got hired here as a fireman. I had actually reverse. I went back and got hired by. Fire and they didn't. Myself and two other guys and that was same. I think that. Was about six weeks of Academy training and. Then a whole lot of on the. Job stuff and. And then their probation. And when I got picked up here myself and Bill Santino. Went to the County Academy. And we weren't. It wasn't one of the first ones. I think we were the first venture you guys to go. To the County Academy since Mendoza got hired like like 12 or 13 years prior, something like that. But yeah, I was 16 or 18 weeks and say and it's just one of those things. I was married. I had. I had one son. I had one kid at the time. Lucas was. A baby. And you know there was.

Tom

Thank you.

Thom

Parts of it where I just looked at it as like. OK, yeah, this is just fun and game. And some of it's kind of, I don't really need to do this right now. I got other things going on, but let's just get this done. But it was fun. You know it. Was pointed out. By some of the instructors there that towards the end of the Academy you can just look. Around this is the last time all of you guys are going to or. All of you guys and women are going to be. In this same room together forever, like it just is not going to happen ever again. It won't. And it was kind of, you know, it's interesting. There's there's people who I have kept in contact with friends that I went into the Academy with knowing them prior to it. And I've got contact since. But it's true. I've never. I've never been on a in the same room with everybody again. And I, you know, I've I've kept. I've met people on on incidents and seeing people around overall. The experience, you know it's it's kind of a game you just have. To go this is what I'm. Doing today, you know. I I try not. To look at Ohh God two weeks of last two weeks of hose, it was more. Like, well, today we're pulling those. You know, tomorrow maybe we won't pull those. Maybe we will and. Next thing you. Know you graduate? It went. It went pretty well. We did we. Did we had a good time?

Jason

So the Academy experience for all of you guys was similar. I think it's it's an Academy, right? It just is what? It is. Let's get into kind. Of your, I mean, we're going to summarize a 30, you know 20 to 30 year career here in the next half an hour or 45. So maybe let's get into some of your really memorable crews or calls or kind of tips that you have for for rookies. I know my kids just about to graduate the Academy, and he had some of the same experiences as we all did. Where some days it was fun and some days it was. Man, we just got to make it through and some days. You know you're ready to. To jump off the ladder tower. So, Cramer, why don't you start with maybe some of your favorite crews. I know you were part of the hazy set a fire that was huge. And man, what an experience that was. So maybe touch on that a little bit. That was one of the gnarliest. You know burn overs, winter cities been involved with. That a little bit.

Brian

Pretty much all my careers throughout my career, you know, and you it it's fun to work with different crews and different people, but the memorable ones are probably when I started, you know, it was Captain Brock and engineer and Diana, who's now our chief one. So those guys were great the first six months and then I went to Captain Hansen at Station 2, Captain Shaman at 3. Captain leans at 4:00 and then Captain Wynell and and Mizer at 5 and Flint at six and back to station one with Captain Manzano. So yeah, I've I've worked with a lot of different crews. Probably my most mayor, mobiles that chunk of time. Where I did 8 years at Station 5 on the ladder truck and the engine. You know, just doing all the use of our classes and and just having that large crew at station 5, I have a lot of great memories from that, of course, ending up with Captain Hoffman at Station 7 on the danger was a good way to kind of land the bird at the end of my career, you know, just be there during the day and be able to sleep at night for the last year and a half. That was really nice. As far as the memorable calls. Yeah, I think starting out it would be locking cheetah on the mudslide. That was about what 2000. Three or five, or somewhere in there, I forget. That was a big a huge deal and we are the second or third engine on scene with Captain India and engineer Neary and just hearing the screaming and all the victims that we were, you know, trying to get out of houses that had tumbled down the hill and out of closets. And there it was, just like a chaotic scene for the first. You know, a day or two there and then tell things. So sorry. Got organized and. You know everything got sorted out, but that that was probably the first big memory of a call that was just kind of, you know, sticks in my mind as being kind of a traumatic call with a lot of injured people and death and everything like that. They hate to. See the fire as you mentioned, that was probably my closest to, you know, getting burned over on the fire engine. It's when. Engine 54 got burned up on Spyglass. That was the next Canyon over. We are on mission right above the mission in Santa Barbara, and I remember the wind going from like 3 miles an hour to 60 or 70 miles an hour. It's in about 30 seconds and they they predicted the sundowners exactly right. It was like they they said at 2:00 we're going to have sundowner winds and get all these structures prepared. And then it it happened exactly like they said. And fire was just we were kind of at the top of a Ridge and fire came up both canyons and we were protecting like 7 or 8 houses on a cul-de-sac. And I just remember just fire being everywhere. What was weird about that is you kind of went into a time warp. It lasted about 3 hours and 20 minutes and at the end of it I thought that that was like a 20 or 30 minute thing, you know? So, but it was 3 hours and 20 minutes we were. All exhausted we. Had run out of water. Basically there was, you know, smoke flames everywhere and we were just kind of. Just trying to stay alive at that point, you know, and the alarms are going off. You couldn't see anything. We're out of water. We were really in a bad situation. But, you know, eventually I just said, hey, can we pray you guys real quick and just ask God to protect our engine and protect our crew? And then I just sort of got this feeling of peace and and we were OK after that, but it was, I mean, I could talk about that call for a long time, but. It was just a real scary situation. We all kind of had three different ideas of what to do on the call, you know? You know, our captain wanted to kind of shelter with our fire shelters and the engine and then our firefighter wanted to maybe go into a house. With our turnout gear and hunker down there and then, I was thinking maybe get out on the ground with a a fire shelter so. It's interesting when it all kind of happens like that and it hits the fan and you have everybody's kind of in survival mode and you're just trying to figure out how to stay alive. But thank God we we're all OK kind of blew over after three hours and 20 minutes and then chief and Daya was, I think it was a chief or maybe he was a captain at the time. And then Chief McPherson. Just came up the hill and gave us a big hug, I think. And I was in a a training strike team training at that time and then yeah, but anyway, we got big hugs and the fire kind of died down and it was over. But that's a very memorable experience and a memorable call in my mind. So yeah, I'm glad I. Was with a good crew, was. Chief Meiser and Brian Smith and myself and and we made it through. So. And then of course the Thomas Fire in 2017. A lot of memories there. Losing 800 homes and I was with Chief Henderson, so it was nice to have someone with a lot. Of wildland experience on that one. But yeah, but but like what you're going to say? Wisdom wise, I would say one thing I learned from Captain Wynell working for him. This is, he said. Let things play out like you. You want to run into a fire situation or to a scene like I remember one time A had a fire in the basement and all these engines were showing up and all these chiefs were running out different doors, telling everybody what to do and why. And I was like, hey, let's just go park in the, you know, parking lot and let this thing play out a little bit before we like moths to the glass. You know just. Let it play out. And so that was some really good advice from experience, Captain, just to kind of let things play out a little bit. So for the new guys, settle down. Check your own pulse before. You check the victims and. And try to slow down and make a good a good decision when you. Go into a call.

Jason

All right, I'm writing that down check. Your own pulse. For full victims or the patients, that's good. Our listeners who don't know the fire he's referring to is AO is our headquarters. So there was a fire and headquarters. So Needless to say, obviously the energy was all ramped up before you guys even started.

Speaker

There you go.

Jason

I'm sure it was, you know, no big deal because the headquarters.

Peter

I think I was. I think I was. Was I the fireman with you, Tom and Kramer? On that one you look.

Brian

It might have been in poor, poor, pleasant. Was the captain the first brand? New first captain on scene. So I felt sorry for him. The whole time.

Speaker

Maybe not.

Peter

Maybe I remember. I remember a fire. At AO and being there and anyway. It's interesting to.

Jason

Hear you talk about some of those calls because that is kind of what everything boils down to when you when you get to be older and when you get to your memories, it's the relationships for me anyways, you guys can, you know, disagree and talk about you want it, but it's the relationships. And kind of the big calls that stand out and all of the politics and the disagreements and the little stuff, just just kind of go away and. Remember, these really are family members, and we've been through some battles with them and and that's pretty cool. That's what stands out. Hoffman, why don't you go next? Let's talk about kind of your career. As far as favorite cruise. I know you've had some funny stories we can get into a million of those kind of some. What do you what do you got for for tips?

Thom

As far as favorite crews go, I'm I'm a lot like Brian. I I really enjoyed everybody who I worked with. You know, you you kind of. Get in. You get to know him. If you haven't worked with this person or that person very much, and there's always that kind of break in period where you're asking about family and all that kind of stuff and it's it's that's always kind of fun and seeing how people work on calls and stuff. And I I typically like to keep it really, really light and it doesn't matter. I've had. I've been on fires before and people ask me, do you ever take anything serious? And it's like, why? Why do we have to be so serious? Let's just do. Our job and. Have a good time, you know, I mean, it's gonna happen so and you and I trust everybody else. Who's there is. Doing their job and this is. A lot like doing any job you. Know as far as cruise like my first crew when? My when I when I worked on the. Medic unit was. Miles Smith, Dave Mendoza, Dave Bayer and then Paul Willett was my partner on the ambulance and that was really fun. We had a great time, you know, we were new here, so we were doing a lot of touring around downtown and just having a good time and obviously working with miles, you know, he's got a trillion stories. He grew up in the we'll say, late 60s all the way through the 70s and all the way through. So he's he's got some really good classic stories, and that was all. That's fine. I worked when I was an engineer, I was at Station 3 with Mark Shamblin and we had a blast, mostly because it seems like every six months we got a brand new. Firemen assigned to us and we do a lot of training and go out and have a we just had a great time. That was always memorable. And then that period that six years I was there. There at 3 allowed me to see a lot of. The guys who I worked with throughout my career because I saw them in the very beginning, you know, as as brand new firemen and then next thing you know they're promoting engineer and then they're captains and you know, some of them are BC, you know, it was it, it was kind of. Fun to look back. At a call sheet and know that I was there in the very beginning, and I remember these things and you know. But and then 2C was really fun. It's carp and I and Jose Ugarte, and we had a blast. And and. And I still have a like a text group with everybody who I've ever been on a crew with, you know. And I do. We just kind of drop photos and stuff and and things like that to each other all the time. So the that part of. That part of the whole career and relationship has been great, memorable calls. I tend to like to remember the really good ones, the fun ones that I went on, you know, I mean, obviously everybody goes. On bad stuff. But with shambling, he would not say no to any minute of overtime. The town. So even it it didn't matter if tomorrow is Christmas and it is time to go home if the bell rang and there was a fire somewhere, he would just say we're all going, it doesn't matter. What you guys are doing and off we go. But that allowed us to go out and have a great time. You know, we met a lot of people. We travel a lot, you know, we're we go to Coral Canyon and down in. Malibu three times with him. And it's fun because you go back and you go, oh, we were here four years ago, remember this place and you kind of have a little familiar there. Very little San Diego, Santa Barbara, we were we were on first attack on the the the first fire in Montecito. We just went up there with a like a immediate need strike team and it was he and I and Brian Smith and we were driving through Montecito. And I had never been back in the sticks in Montecito before. And some of those roads are like, like a campground. You know, they're just little tiny roads. With these big houses and these, there's houses fully involved everywhere and it's like, well, you learn a lot to just go, keep going, keep going, keep going. OK, there's one stick to it, you know, and you, you just you learn to kind of sweep away all the. Superfluous bull crap and. And what? What can we do here? Let's save this one house. There's nothing wrong with it. Now you know my crews have all been a great have all been, you know, great. Like Brian said, I finished out my medic engine seven career with Kramer as my engineer. We had a great time. We're both the same age. I think we're both pretty relaxed as far as like. You you kind. Of look back and realize what's important. And what's not and kind? Of how to deal with people and you know we, we know our job. So it made it really enjoyable. As far as. Far as like a memorable call that that seems to. Come to mind a. Lot is it's funny you guys got it all. When? When somebody finds out you've been a fireman for a while, they always say, oh, I bet you seen some really gross stuff. They always say that. But I always say. Yeah, but I've seen some. Really. Cool stuff too. I mean, and I never say. Any of the bad calls I just go. If you can deliver a baby, you will be on Cloud 9 for a year. I mean, that is an unbelievable experience and I've I've delivered several kids in. My in my career. And one of them was really funny the 1st. One was with. Pat Farrell and Jim Davis at station 4. First thing in the morning we go this lady's in labor. We go in on the medic. I take a look and I go. We're not making it to the hospital. The baby's going to come right here. Well, are you kidding me? And Pat Ferrell looks at me and he goes. Are you sure? Yeah, let's just do so. It was really. Funny, I mean, it was like a clockwork. Delivery like out it came. The dad was in the living room. I called him in. Come on in here. We tied it off. He cut the cord. We did the whole thing. Well, then grandma walks in and she recognizes me. And it turns out that they were, like, not family friends, but. The family went to school with my siblings, so we knew each. Other and then. You know then and then you get a phone call a week later and you know. Oh, thank you. And it's it's just, those are always really cool calls, you know? But I don't know. There's there's a ton of them over a career, but. You just kind of. I thought they were all fun. I mean, some of them are less fun. Than others, but some. Of them are funnier than others. Some of them are funnier for other reasons. You know, like the funny circumstance or an actual comedic type of a call, a lot of them are very memorable. But I try and I try and look at the really good ones and the fun ones that I went on and where we where we had a good time. And we and we made a difference. And help people.

Jason

Out. So yeah, I like that way of thinking. When you say when somebody. Asks you you. Know what's the worst call you've seen? You you always kind of gravitate to. Well, yeah, I'm sure we've seen that stuff. But there's cool stuff we see too. So let's talk about that. And as far as the the baby being related to somebody that's your family knew that could have been probably any person in all of Ventura, true or false.

Speaker

You click.

Thom

Yeah. And for our listeners, you.

Jason

Don't have contacts. How many siblings do you have?

Thom

I am the 7th of 12 kids.

Jason

Yeah. Good for you, ma'am. So you're you're one of the mayors that we've that we've employed with the fire department over the over the years. I think we call.

Thom

When I was working with Dan Plum. It was, they said, if. Dan Plumb doesn't know him. Then Hanson will know him. If Hansen doesn't know him, then Hoffman will know him and any call like I I could. I used to go into calls and, you know, I'd walk down the hall and I'd look at the family photos and go oh. Is this is this? Your granddaughter well. I went to high school with her and. That that sometimes or that a lot of times is the best medicine. They can be. To any bad call. A little familiarity a little. This is going to be OK, you know, everything's going to be alright and people calm down. Really quick but.

Jason

We're normal on both sides. I I love treating everybody else like, you know, we're not different than you. We're both humans. We're trying to get through this. We have some, some things we can help you with. And one of the things we'll get into this in probably the next 5. That's but one of the things my preceptor taught me was treat everybody like their family and that they're like your grandma. If you need to hold their hand, hold their hand, do what you need to do to. Make them feel. Comfortable and not elevate yourself anyway, Peter. Go ahead. I know you're trying to get some words in there.

Peter

Yeah, I mean, mine's not really relevant to that specific conversation, but it just hit me. And since I'm, you know, memory issues as we all age. I think I got a job for you, Hoffman. There is an industry that we've virtually learned about on the podcast. It's called the what do they call it? Jason, it's the the fire Department humor business. Yeah. So I didn't even know this existed. But we like the firefighter Fenton, and then the American Fire Brigade. And all these guys and the like, the fire department. Coffee guys and whatnot. I think that's your next. I think that's your next. One song, you.

Speaker

It's funny.

Peter

Need to get into the fire department humor business?

Jason

It's funny because Peter, being an entrepreneur at heart, is probably a little bit different than Hoffman's view. I'm not totally convinced that Hoffman's looking for another job at this point.

Speaker

I mean.

Thom

So many jobs right now and. The only this is I do them all. For free, but no.

Speaker 6

Yeah. All right. Well, now, let's, let's let you get.

Jason

Into into your story and you know kind of the same the. Same questions for you.

Tom

Well, let's see. I think I have. Such a diverse. Experience from old old time guys being, you know, when I first came on here, I was a baby in the fire department and these guys have been retired now for 20 plus years. So it's an interesting everything in the fire service is. We're just a cross section of the public, so no matter who your crew is or what happens there there, it's like you could just pick some guy on the street and go get over here and start peeling them like an like an onion, and you'd find out that we have a whole lot more in. Common than than not, but I think overall I mean I spent a lot of time at 5 a lot of time with you, Jay. Five and you know the cruise with Christies and and Crane Dog and all these guys that were we we really jailed. We had a lot of fun, we trained a lot, we went on a lot of different incidents. I worked a lot going, you know, growing up here so. So that enabled me. I guess good, bad, right? Wrong to go on all these instances. It's funny. I was in some form of capacity and pretty much all the large wildland. I'll leave them at the very end, you know, with tea and has a seat to it and Oh my gosh, you know, you name it. It was just like everything was a blur. It seems like you we were. We were burning for so long in those years, you know, and then I I got experience. The truck stop where I got. I got to be involved in a lot of the user slash structure fire stuff that that was really really fun for me. One of the crews that I remember as being with the most hilarious was. Was Jack Young and Paul Maciel at Station 3 because Chuck is a consummate prankster and he is relentless when it comes to joking rubber snakes, you know, masks, you name it. He he loved to terrify people, so it would. It would be like 6 months waiting for your opportunity to get. Because you back in the day and we had all communal showers and dorms and stuff, and that being said, you couldn't shut the door and not have, you know, have Chuck young trying to crawl, crawl in the bed with you or he would wake up with a with a gorilla mask on or he'll he'll come around the shower and and do us up. But I did get him one time. Was probably one of my favorite pranks of all. He had this rubber snake that I I just talked to him not that long ago about this. He had a rubber snake that he would take all the time and then he would he would. Put it. You know, in some place that you would not expect to be right. So we got called for this, this rattlesnake call up and on Delano and I grabbed Chuck Snake and I told Paul I got. I got a. Snake. So Chuck happened to know this family, and we went up there and I grabbed this snake. He pleased to put it into a red rag. Can which? We didn't kill him back then because Paul believed that they had spirits and souls and blah blah blah so. He didn't. He didn't want to kill the snake. So I grabbed this thing with a noose, which probably rendered it unable to eat ever again, and I put it in. This red light came, and this thing was huge, so it was striking and hitting at this can, and rattling its tail and stuff. And he wanted to go up towards Atmore's property up up the Canyon there and we were just going to dump it, you know. Out of there. So. I have my boots on top of this thing and it's going crazy in there laughing and and Paul keeps looking back at me, chucks driving, and as soon as we set the anchor lacks. I threw this snake and it went around Chuck's neck and. I said it got out. And he goes flying out of the engine. And Paul. And I starts. Howling has it taken so long to get this guy anyway and then and then pretty much it was like he was after me for the next six months and we have other fun stories. But yeah, those are the times. The hygienics in the Firehouse that. Probably are very professional, but you know they they are what they are and they break the ice and they they keep us going, you know we spend a lot of time together.

Peter

What's so funny? I worked for Paul for years and he did. He did not like killing things. He he definitely had different different viewpoints on things like that. I want to. Talk about something because you guys are all. From a I don't think you. I I don't know that I would say you. Guys are all from the same generation but. Everybody says this like, oh, they don't make firemen like they used to. This generation is so, you know, they don't work like we want them to. They call them. Sick too much, you. Name it whatever you want to insert in there. What have you seen change in the fire service from when? You got here. To the day you walked out. Like, what are some of the big contrasts, you know, or or what do you say to those people that make those kind of claims? Like, what are your thoughts regarding that? Interesting to hear what each of you guys say you want to go first. Why now?

Tom

Sir, that's funny. When I was hearing you, Tommy, talk about Mark Shamblin, we had numerous people like this. They were very upset. If someone else got got overtime and they weren't able to do it. So consequently, I mean you, you you'd see these guys, they did not. I mean this was a job. This is what put food on the table and they sacrificed pretty much everything to, you know, to to make as much money as they possibly could, you know, working here. So that being said, I don't, I don't know. I mean it's been it's been interesting. To see the whole. Little circle effect of this because you know now it's kind of like a safe space and freaking all kinds of different. We used to settle things differently and and the Firehouse, you know it was it was OK. I mean it wasn't passive aggressive. It was I suppose aggressive and that and people always knew where you know where you stood. That being said, that's probably not the best way to handle conflict now, but but you always knew. I mean, and if someone was upset with you or vice versa, it it didn't fester long, we didn't have these issues. It seems to me like that went on for years and years and years, but. That's, that was then. I mean, you talked about these guys that came out of Vietnam and and they were hard living, blue colored guys that got in the fire service and they they were different, you know the the medic thing definitely changed. What kind of employee we have, and now it's growing even further to where? You know people's time is is paramount over the job. I think first and foremost, which I don't, you know, I'm not here to judge it. It's just it's just. What it is, you know? Yeah, yeah.

Jason

I think work life balance right? That's what we talk about all.

Peter

Well said too.

Jason

The time, Pete. Yeah.

Peter

Which didn't really exist back then, or it wasn't talked about whether good or bad. I don't know. I have no idea. Yeah.

Jason

Right.

Peter

What do you think, Hoffman?

Thom

I agree with a lot of that it's it's. Different I grew up. Obviously, in a big family where we didn't just something broke, you didn't just throw it away and go buy. A new one. You fixed it. So we always grew up working on things and kind of figuring out how things, tinkering and how things worked. And for me, I was a painter before I was a fireman, and I worked at Miles, Miles, Smiths Health up on internal and he was the one who said, you know, you should be a fireman. You you. You'd really like this. You know, this is a. That'd be a good job for you. All right, so he kind of mentored me through classes to take and things like that. And it took a long time. So there was a whole lot. Of drive and it took me 7 years to get hired finally. But I came in with a lot of like like I said, like knowledge on how tools work, how things are built, construction kind of how a job would work, like where, where do you start and stop for doing a room remodel or whatever you're doing, you know, kind of a pattern and that's kind of. How I ran? Incidents that I was on there was always kind of. Like a pattern that you thought I just do. This and then we'll. Do this and then we're going to sweep the floors and we're out of here type of thing. And I think a lot of that is gone. Basic hand tools not gone, but it's not as prevalent like Tom said. A lot of the guys that were working when I got hired here were Vietnam era guys who were on their way out and stuff, but they all. Knew about. Building construction. They all knew about how motors work. They all knew how pumps work. They all knew how to work on things they knew. How to fix things and? And that's why I really enjoyed being an engineer. I had the three jobs in the fire service as a fireman, an engineer and A and a captain, and I would say I wasn't the best engineer, but I think that was the job I was best. Because for me it was interesting and I always I always kind of when I would help people with the pumping exams and stuff. And I would say anybody can get water out of this engineer out of this engine. But an engineer keeps water coming out. And that's all you need to know. So you need to know how this stuff works. A lot of that is kind of hard to teach because I don't know that that mentality is out there because now the way things are, if something breaks, you get on Amazon. A new one shows up on your porch day after tomorrow, and you throw the old. Throw away where when you can't really do that. If you need to, you know you you can't really do that all the time, so.

Peter

I was just saying we had Tammy on. The podcast 2. Episodes ago, or anyhow, and her thing, she was echoing the same thing that these kids that are trying to come to the Fire Academy have no idea how something work like how do you use a hammer? What is the screwdriver do like like basic stuff. And I think that is gone. And and this isn't just the fire service, right. Like go try to find a contractor, a plumber or electrician. Like the trades are suffering too. People we. Just it's not. It's not a skill that's valued in our society, but I think that's changing because there's such a shortage we're going, you're going to see a shift where people put more value on the trades going forward, which I bet you will impact the fire service like it's gonna take a while. But yeah, couldn't couldn't agree more.

Thom

And like what what Tom said is the. Medic thing changed. A lot because. Now the emphasis is on how good of a paramedic are you and you're going to get hired. You know you're going to get hired here where it's like, well, OK.

Speaker

You could be.

Thom

You know, you could be a a really good tactician and a really good bedside manner and. Be kind of you. Know. OK. As a medic, like with your your, your skills and stuff and you could be a really good medic as long as you kind of know how to treat people and how to treat situations and things like that. I just think it's it's just. Changed and and I don't want to. Hurt anybody's feelings or anything, but I agree with Tom. There was there was. If someone had trouble with you, they'd come over and and talk to you and you might get a little heated in the parking lot, but it was typically over there wasn't there wasn't grudges there. There, there was. But it wasn't like ongoing like this. And now there's a whole lot of anonymity where you can say whatever you want from the comfort of your own living room, and it's, you know, I have, I have my opinions on. On a lot of these things, but like I said, I don't want to. I don't. Want to hurt anybody's feelings because.

Peter

Well, that's that's the new and improved Hoffman. We want the Hoffman that wanted to hurt their. Feelings. No kidding. Kramer, how about you?

Brian

Hurt some feelings, yeah.

Peter

I don't think you've ever hurt. I don't think you've ever. Hurt anybody's feelings.

Brian

I'm just kidding. No, but I think to get to the heart of your question, like, how has things changed with this work life balance and all that it's I think 20-30 years ago like when I was starting my career and my other. Yeah, you know, back in the late 80s, it was like a badge of honor, not to call in sick, you know. And I went eight years at my last job. I never called in sick. Now I look back and think that was probably stupid because I probably should have a couple times. But then if, you know me, I didn't call in sick a lot at this job either. And, you know, and you can debate that, you know, do you need mental health days off and all that stuff? And that's debatable. But I think what it does is, is the pendulum to me, is almost one from never calling in sick to now, people are calling in sick too much. You know, I think we need to be in the middle somewhere balanced. But what was I saying? Oh, I was saying if you are a guy who just comes to work, does his job, doesn't take a lot of sick calls, and then you have, let's say, 1/3 of the department taking a bunch of sick days. Well, now all of a sudden the guys who are just coming in trying to do the right thing are going to be saddled up with more overtime and burdened even more and kind of, you know, closer to burnout situation. So that's why I think the pendulum has to swing back more toward the middle of. You know too much time off and not enough time, so that that's my feeling is we've gone kind of old school to new school and now we need to go back to the middle. So I don't know. Where that is. Or how how all that's going to get solved with, you know, work life balance and mental health and all that kind of stuff. That's a whole nother can of worms. But yeah, that that's my two cents. Go somewhere in the middle.

Speaker

I think people I.

Peter

I think people aren't taking like obviously some of you you guys been long way longer than I have or was I don't think I think people were taking more ownership in the beginning of my career like they owned they they had ownership in the department in general and they and not that they I don't know if it was they cared more cared less. It just it was theirs, and that's what I see changing. Like there's no some of these. Sometimes I feel like there's less ownership. They're more worried about their, their life outside of the fire department, which is also important. But yeah, I don't know what the balance is. I don't think we've figured it out yet. Hopefully we can make. Progress though, but yeah, I like.

Jason

That you're talking about? Ownership ownership of the of the job and the you know the department and that's pretty huge and I. Will say this. Group that we have on today is all about work. Ethic and where they came from and how much effort they put into the. Job versus how much? They think how. How often can I get away with doing as little as possible? I don't think any any of the three, you know guys we have on today would say that. And one of the things Kramer hasn't mentioned yet is that he grew up on a how big was your farm? In Nebraska, cram.

Brian

Well, it's funny you mentioned that I'm on the farm right now, and I mean, I'm in. I'm in Nebraska. I'm at the library in town because it was too loud at the farm, but anyway. Yeah. I grew up with my my dad, my uncle, my grandpa, all farmed about 2000 acres together. So I grew up on a big farm and it got split up during. The 80s but. Anyway, that's kind of what I why I wanted to get out of the office job and back into, you know, more of a setting with with fire engines and people and, you know, getting out of the office environment. And that's what really got me into the fire service because it was the most related to farming that I could find as far as driving big trucks and everything. That's what I really enjoyed being an engineer so.

Jason

That point, the work ethic of a. Farmer you basically. You're not going to feed your family unless your work ethic is on point and you're out there. You know farming, which is a ton. Of hard work as a.

Brian

Yeah, my, my dad. Whenever my dad would get a cold or get sick, he'd be like, I gotta work. Work through it like he would go out in the cold and the heat, whatever it was. And he thought that's the way to get rid of a sickness. Is to go work. Harder or go out and work. Work. Work through your pain. You know and. I don't. I don't take that mantra is necessarily in today's culture or. Not just the fire service. If you talk to people that work at Starbucks or own bookstores. Like all the trades, it's the same. It's not just we're not just talking about the fire service here. This is a whole new generation of kids that are coming up and going. You know, they're kind of saying time out. What are we doing, working ourselves to death, you know? And they're they're trying to figure out this whole work life balance thing, whereas we just put our nose to the grindstone and went for it. So. It's just a different. Culture and I I don't know where it's all. Going to end. Up. But that's my two cents anyway.

Peter

Hoffman, did you have something to say? I think. You were trying to chime in there.

Thom

I was, but I totally forgot.

Peter

OK, I got. I got one last. I got one last round, Robin. Question and I'll let you. Guys, we can kind of freestyle or whatever, but. How is retirement different than what you expected it to be? Or was there something that happened about the whole process or life after the fire department that you didn't account for like is it is it? Is it exactly what you thought it? Was going to. Be or was it tougher? Was there something that threw you for a? Curveball like what? What kind of conversation? And we have that helps people. Who are looking at retiring and transitioning?

Speaker

After you.

Jason

Guys and we'll ask you again. In five years, so it'll be. A multi part question.

Thom

I I would say as far as how it is compared to what I thought it might be the biggest like not not, I guess the surprise, but you talked about worth, we always hear work life balance. Right. Well, I've got three kids. You know, Brian's got three kids. Tom's got three kids. So growing up, you're working, you know, and that that was it. My wife and I, Liz, she's the best. We had an agreement that. I'm gonna work, and she's gonna take care of the kids. We're not gonna do daycare and all that kind of stuff. So I work, work, work. Work right, but doing that there was the home calendar. There was the kids calendar and there's the work calendar. So all right, these are the days that I got to be at work and these are the days that. The kids got to be at soccer and birthdays and. And then there's, you know, days that we're doing things as family. So if anybody was to say, hey, you want to go and have a beer on Thursday night, I'd go well, hang on for a minute. I got. I got to check 3 calendars right? And that was. Just normal. You know it was. Well, then I go retire, my kids are gone. Two are graduated. College one's done in May 2, live down in Los Angeles. One other ones in Orange County. Liz works and. I'm. I'm done and so I said the best part and then it took about 3 days for me to get used to it was if somebody said, hey, you want to go have lunch on Wednesday, I can just go. Yeah. Because I don't have the other. Calendars. It's mine. And and it's not selfish. It's. There's still things that I do. I I you know. One of the things. That that Liz was looking forward to most, she says in retirement, was that when she got home from work, dinner would be ready and I like to cook and we used to get home around the same time so she would get home. After working and start dinner and then I'd help her out or do dishes or do whatever now. You know, I I got dinner ready. I tinker around with projects. I help my parents, my mom. I help Liz's parents. Just kind of my day is my own. You know, if I if I want to sleep in, I sleep in. If I don't, then I get up and I I start on projects. But as far as. Matt Brock texted me after he retired. And he said when you retire, it will be better than you think it's gonna be. And he's right, you know, it's just. It's just, it's like this freedom of, you know, more. You do whatever you want to do, and obviously there's there's routine things that have to be done. You know. Around the house and stuff like that. But the the best part is. Is I went into it knowing that. I'm going to get a lot of my life back that I didn't lose, but you put stuff on hold. Obviously, when your parents, we all know that that, you know, I'm not my kids are the greatest accomplishment I've ever had. And and I value them more than anything. But very time consuming. So you put off being in the water or you put off doing this or doing that and and as they got older it was easier for me to kind of phase my way into work, you know, work projects, woodworking or something in the garage or tinkering with something or restoring something. And now that I'm fully retired, it's. It's full time and it and it's been it's been very, very nice. You know, just it's relaxing. I think the most anxiety I've felt since I've retired is 3 minutes before this, this this podcast.

Speaker

No different.

Peter

And you're the one that brought up the dishes. So we're not going to talk. About the dishes here in a bit.

Thom

I would say that if anybody is in. The loaded in the Chamber to retire, but they're having iffy, iffy, iffy thoughts, and you're holding out for. Well, maybe I wait till next year because I'm going to get another 2%. If you really do the math, you go, if that's what you want to do. But realistically, go enjoy yourself. Have a good time. You're going to be just. They're gonna be just fine, you know? So I I anybody who's thinking about it. Just just go for it, man. It's a good time.

Peter

Yeah. Awesome. Why now? How about?

Tom

I would have to agree with with with Hoffman on a number of accounts, something that used to **** me off was people would go how you know? How come you haven't left and it was it was such a personal decision with regards to when you want to do it and you're it's it's a comfort with. With financial comfort slash, you know relationship come all these different things come into play when you're doing it and and they used to irk me to know him when some give a go how come you're still here 31 years and and I would I'd say well I'll I'll come back and busy if I'm still alive and you can. And you can explain to me, you know what, what makes you do your decision? One of the best things I did was retire on my own terms, which I was very blessed to be able to do because so many guys that I have worked with over the years did not get to do that. And. Like Tommy is saying, the the best part of the day is the fact that I can't. Believe I ever. Had how did I ever fit in work, I mean? Stuff that that is just great. I have. I have a better, much better positive outlook on on all kinds of stuff. You know, it's just it's good to do it like you said.

Peter

Awesome. Awesome. Great. How about?

Brian

You. Yeah, I I probably would have gone two or three more years if we work for a department that didn't have so many night calls. And we weren't. Getting rid of the engines, but I knew I was going to go back to the 487296 up all night and that didn't sound appealing. After being on engine seven with Captain Hoffman. So I decided to end it. You know, this year and my daughter was getting married. She just got married October 22nd. But yeah, if I work for a department like, I could work in Ohio. Lake Sherwood or Oak Park, I probably would have gone, you know, a little longer. Like captain. Well, but I I do think our call volume, our our situation is changing with the 48 hour shifts and I don't I personally don't do well that well with lack of sleep. So I'm kind of irritable at home with my family and I didn't want to go back to that. So that's why I got. Out at 55, as far as retirement, it's only been two months for me and. I had my daughter's wedding coming up, so I I had a lot going on. She got married October 22nd and now my wife is telling me, Brian, you need to have a route. Clean and get out of the house, at least in the mornings when I get ready and get the house. In order and everything like that. She she works from home a lot, and so if I'm if I don't have a project. I need to at least not bother my wife, so that's what I'm learning. It's harder on and I think Tom gave me a book. Why now about retirement? It's harder on the spouses than the person retiring because they're our wives are really used to. Having their own alone. Plan and their own space. And now that we're retired, we invade that. So I have been volunteering like at Food, Chair of the Senior Nutrition Garden. I'm on a men's softball team on Monday night. I'm really pretty actively involved in my church. And in fact, I'm I met a guy at Church, Bob Brooks, the retired sheriff of Ventura County. And he told me he goes. Just the first year, just try different things. Don't commit. You know for sure to one path or another because whatever you think path you're going to go down, it's going to be something different so. Then his advice was to try different things volunteer wise or part time job or whatever it is. But. It might take. A whole year or two to kind of settle into retirement. So yeah, when I get back from this trip to Nebraska, I do want to figure out a routine, whether that's volunteer like every day from 8:00 to noon at food share or whatever, just to give my wife. That time to get up. You know what? She's had a cup of coffee and breakfast. She's fine. But she doesn't need me there every single day. What are you doing, Joey, who are you talking to? You know all that kind of stuff. She just doesn't want that. So I need to just realize I'm not at work. I'm not bantering with clappy or somebody at work, so I need to just. You know, figure out my own deal in the morning and then and then we can, you know, come together and figure out the rest of the day. So I'm still. Figuring out retirement, it's only been two months.

Thom

So Brian reminded me about, you know, when Julie saying things to him and getting a routine, but. Just this past weekend, Liz works all week and then we have weekends off. Well, then she does things around the house gardening or whatever. You know, things that have to be done around the house. So I said, let's try this. How about on weekends we walk around the house and we make notes of things that need to be done, and then we're done. For the weekend and then during the week, I'll do those things like. You know, whatever it is that way. Her whole weekend isn't spent. Just let's walk around. What do you want done, like, right now? Where we say we're exercising our kids from our rooms. And if they listen to this, they're going to whatever. But we're making our old bedrooms basically in the guest rooms so that people can sleep in a guest room instead of sleeping in my kids old room with AY, SO trophies and, you know. Posters and stuff like. So we're in the process of doing that. So we're going kind of room to room and and and picking out projects that that keep you busy or whatever and and we're going to give this a whirl and see how. It works because. Otherwise, you know she works Monday through Thursday and then Friday she does all. Shopping and stuff like that. And then Saturday, Sunday. She's always picking at some project and it's like you shouldn't have to do that. Let's go. Let's go ride bikes or let's go do something fun on your weekend. You know, my my weekend starts on Monday and ends on. Monday. So you know, it just keeps on going so.

Peter

You're setting the bar a little too high for retired guys. I'm just gonna say that like you might be screwing some dudes over right now. I'm kidding. That was funny.

Speaker 6

Hi I'm Austin folk, an engineer with the Ventura City Fire Department. I'm also on the board of the Ventura Fire Foundation, an organization that supports firefighters and their families. The foundation produces this podcast as part of our mission, I worked with the foundation because I was witnessed to the help that it was able to provide. My family, the foundation, needs your help first. Please subscribe and rate this podcast on your podcast platform. This helps us get a higher ranking and more visibility for the show. Second, if you support the podcast and the foundations work, please consider donating. Every dollar helps us support firefighters and their families. There is a link in the show notes. Or you can donate through the website at www.venturafirefoundation.org. Thank.

Jason

Before we let these guys go, I have another couple quick ones. Tom Hoffman, I specifically wanted to ask you and we could do obviously a whole hour on this, but follow up for maybe just a minute or two on the podcast that we did with your daughters and your thoughts on that and if there's any big surprise takeaways. From that on your side as their parent.

Thom

No, there was no surprises they they both called me the day before and they said, hey, is there is there anything you do or do not want us to mention? And I said no they're. Going to ask the. Questions, I said. It's basically an. You and and you know, and interviews and interviews like I was tell people when they're doing practice interviews for fire jobs don't go in there and try and say. What you think the person wants to hear? Answer the question. Give them because it's an interview. So I said no, just whatever. If they ask you about your feelings or how you feel about this. Just answer it and I. Wasn't surprised by anything. You know, I thought it was all. They were, I. Got a lot of really good compliments from a lot of people, which is as a dad it's it's really good to hear that people go, man, your daughters are well spoken or boy, they did a really nice job and all that and it's. Like great you. Know. Thank you. Yeah, I'm. I'm very proud of them. Lucas wasn't wasn't able to be on it, and it was funny because just a few weeks ago we were all here and that subject came up and they were talking about, you know, when Dad came home. I remember he would be tired and he would this and he would that and. Lucas had a. Completely different. Take on it, you know he. Said I don't. I don't remember. Dad coming home and barking and stuff. I remember he would come home and say he was tired and he's going to take a nap and we just kind of knew what to do. But he goes, I don't know. And so it's funny, you know, just the the between the, the, the three kids, the different, the different things that they saw. But no, I wasn't. I wasn't surprised. By anything you. Know Pete said you could have his daughters or Jason your kids or Tom your kids, and they'd probably give very similar answers. You know, they they say work life balance. And I it was one of those things that while it was all going on, I think I did the best I could. And obviously, partnered up with Liz and she did the best she could and we made it. We made. It work, you know, so. I I wasn't surprised by anything that that they said I there wasn't any big revelations. We talked. About things and.

Peter

Yeah, I'll, I'll say I'll say. This you did a hell of a job with your kids, like you did a great job and none of us are.

Thom

Well, I think. Perfect. Right? Like we all did. We all have great kids. I mean we do. Yeah, we do. We just have great kids and. And and and. If you just it's, it's just it. It's a lot of hard work that pays off.

Peter

You know? Yeah. And I'll say one thing, that was an unintended consequence of the of the podcast with your daughters is it helped us kind of solidify, among other things. But it was a big part in my mind anyway. That our focus, the foundations focus is we are going to focus on the families, not just the spouses, but the kids too. And it was a big part from that conversation with your daughter. So that was definitely a favorite part of the.

Jason

I like the resiliency part that we specifically learned from your daughters. Not only one of the things that surprised me was, hey, are the kids upset when you miss Holidays and they go? No, that's kind of cool because we all get together and have them when we can and we just learn to be resilient and go go with the flow better. And as humans, I think that helps. That was. Something that was kind of like eye opening. To me, and I go, I bet a lot of kids would say that same thing. The the the last thing I want to talk about and I think you guys probably all have maybe a little bit different take on this is burnout. And cram you mentioned. This just a couple of minutes. Ago and I think one of the things why? Nell taught me is. You do go through different ebbs and flows of your career where you're more into being a firefighter and then maybe where you're more into something else in your life and. It kind of has. You know different different cycles and waves of how how into it you are and how much you just wish you could be. Home more. Is there something you can tell our guys? Maybe that. Would help them through those ebbs and flows or or maybe would help them avoid some of the burnout issues that are pretty innate to being a firefighter and that are pretty either unavoidable or, you know, I look at Hoffman and I go, I'm not sure that you ever felt effects of being burned out as a firefighter. Maybe that's a different attitude. I know I have for sure at times been feeling. More burned out than others, and why now? Just as close as we've gotten over the years, I think there's been ebbs and flows in that for you is to you so as well. So maybe you guys.

Brian

Can touch on some of that. Yeah. For me, I was. I think when I first started feeling burned out at work was after I worked at. Station 5 for those eight years. You know, and I had a I had a lot of fun there and a. Whole cast of. Characters and clapping and deeds and why not? Every we had a great time, but I think you know what started get in my head. It's like especially before we had air conditioning. Jason, you were helping. You know, you helped us to get AC there. That helped a lot. But before that it just turned into this brick oven at night in the summer I remember. And I was just kind of miserable. And I was. Listening to the traffic, getting off on telephone and hearing the electrical lines and the cops pulling people over in the middle of night pulling right. And then I just started, you know, thinking about Winco and Target and Main Street. And I just kind of started, I started getting affected by the environment a little bit and like, why doesn't this station have more Windows? And why is all this brake dust coming in here and why are people from target just, you know, camping out and calling us all the time and the Everglades? And I know the whole thing. I just needed a change. You know, after that. And so and I love being on the truck and the engine and all that, but I just, I go, I need to change it up so. Then I went. To Station 1, back to my roots. You know, for a while on the avenue, it wasn't any really less busy, but it was. Just different being downtown and. The beach cruises and everything, and so I for me I just changed it up. I go. I got to go back to the beach. I got to go back to station. One. And then I decided to go to Hazmat school and go to six because I I heard it was a little slower out there. Maybe that's not the right thing that I was getting my 50s and I was ready to slow down. And then the opportunity for the day engine came up and I jumped on that with Captain Hoffman. And that was a good way to end my career. But I. I'm not sure if I'm answering the question appropriately, but I think too seeing four of our guys die, you know. On duty, basically from cancer and heart attacks and everything, it's it just made me realize life is short and I want to get out with my health at the end of. My career, so that's kind of what? Why I decided to retire at 55 and like, Captain Hoffman said a little 2% here and there, is it really going to make a difference, you know? But I would advise people in going into retirement is try to have groups of friends, not only in the fire service but outside the fire service. Whether that's a hiking group or a church group, or wherever, or a softball team or whatever, wherever you get your social interaction, maybe outside of fire. I think that's important too. As you think about retirement is try. You know, like the other day, I worked in the in the I'll just end with this. I worked at food share and I worked with like 5 retired English teacher ladies and they were talking about these classical books and everything and it was just interesting. I was said to myself. Well, finally I'm. I'm not working with a bunch of getting 99% guys anymore in the fire service like a big fraternity. It was just something different. So that was kind of neat. I don't even know if that's. I'm going off topic here, but.

Jason

No, that's that's. Perfect. When you said that you avoided burnout by changing it up. I think that's a great suggestion. Yeah. And I that's true. I think when you started feeling burned out, you opened your eyes to what is it that can change this for me? And I think you kind of reinvigorated your, you know, your passion for the career a little bit or for life. When you went to. On and then you were like, oh, let's do something different. I don't think going to six, even if it's with the intent of getting a little bit slower, I don't think there's anything wrong with that, especially, especially as you're approaching change and not getting burned out. I think those are great suggestions. One of the Toms pick it.

Thom

Up. Can you repeat the question?

Jason

You avoided getting burned out in your career, in my opinion, and from the outside perspective, looking into your life and the career, I don't think there's ever a time where you approached any drill that I was at with you or a call or anything. Where you're like. I just do not want to be here. I. Do not want to do this. Give give some, including myself. Man, I'll just put myself out there, give some suggestions to you how you can avoid that stuff and how you keep the positive attitude.

Thom

I'm I I like to keep it fun. I've I've said in the past many, many times that I'm not your consummate fireman. I was never one who went. Oh, God, I hope we get a big fire tonight. I hope with. This like no. I'd I'd rather we didn't, you know, but. If it happens. Let's go. Let's go have a you. Know let's go. Do our job like type of thing. And keeping things fun is the best way to keep anything going. It's how you keep a marriage intact. It's how you keep a long project at home, you know, on track. You don't. You don't stop, you just you look at you, look at what you're doing. And I I'm I've never had a problem with night calls. And the more tired I get, I I like to. I like to thank myself, myself and my two brothers and several of my other siblings. I think we're pretty funny people. We, we, I we see things in a different a different way I can pretty much see comedy or humor in anything that's out there, even if it's very inappropriate I can. See it you. Know, but yeah, you bite your tongue sometimes, right? But as I get tired, I get funnier in my head and things are funny, you know? And. And so night time calls never bothered. I I don't like to get up five times at night, but whatever. I'm getting up. It's not like I can say I'm not going, so I might as well have a good time. Night time calls the lighting's different. It's usually quiet out. The call might be something a little more serious. It was just a different environment. So it was a different thing to try and figure out. Like I said, I was. I was never the fireman's fireman where I was dying to kick down doors and all this. But I know how to do it and if it needed to be done it. Could be done. I was more there to have a good time, make sure that everybody around me who who's working for me is having a good time and is safe. And this is what we have to do. What's the point? You know, why complain? Why, why? Why tell everybody? Ohh, I hate to be here because if I go to a drill and there's ten people there and I'm mad and upset and I don't want to be there, well, the next guy who might be thinking he doesn't want to be there, he's not going to. Be there either mentally. And then it spreads. And then whatever the drill is, you're teaching us ropes when the time comes, we gotta do ropes. And the guys who? Didn't want to be there. Didn't pay attention. Now who pays right. So drills, calls. Whatever. I avoided burnout by. This is my job. I always looked. At it as. Fun I always looked at everything as kind of a challenge, and if it wasn't a challenge because I've done it 100 times, like like. Slim Jim and cars and things like that. It was an opportunity to teach somebody who's never done it. Hey, have you ever done this before? OK. Here, come over here and do this. Here's how you do. It here's a little tip you. Know you kind. Of you can you can turn around and. And take it from a a job you have to do to teaching somebody else how to do it. And passing on kind of the. Craft, you know, as far as burnout I I just. This is it was my job and you got to go to a job and.

Peter

All of us.

Thom

Are as lucky as anybody who won any lottery to get the job that we had. There are people that I know. Who? You know, very successful in their businesses and they would say man, if I could go. Back 30 years. I.

Peter

Would have been a.

Thom

Fireman. You know it's it's. Just it's a great job and. That that kind of goes. All the way back to the beginning of the podcast where I don't understand. Some of the peoples being upset with their job with this job, it's like, do you understand what you have? You know you're you're welcome into anybody's house at any time, night or day, to help people. And when I, you know, when we all raised our right hand and swore at our. Judging ceremonies. We didn't swear to do anything other than to protect the community. So drills, night calls, day calls, the 20th call of the. Day. Whatever, man. I'm the one who stood in front of this firing squad and said throw it at me, you know, and I'd be willing to bet that most people who interviewed for this job, whether it's at Ventura City, the county, LA City, whatever, they're asked why do you want to work here? And I would bet you that a lot of them, if not most of them, said because this is a busy place. I work and I want to work well.

Tom

OK.

Thom

You got it. So I I just look back, this is my opportunity to give back to my community like I said. I was born at CMH. Went to school here. My parents picked Ventura. You know, they're from the Midwest. They lived all over the United States. They picked Ventura. It's a great place. And and I'm. Fortunate enough to live here on a house here, I got kids. They've lived here. This is. This is a great place to be. And so I'd never, ever thought. I've said it a bunch of times, you've never heard me play say this place sucks and I'm getting screwed. Never. Not even once. It it, it would be a complete lie if. I ever said. It this is a this is. A great place we all make good. Money. We all have very secure futures and there's nothing to be upset about as far as I'm concerned, you know? And I've said in the past too, have you ever had a job you didn't like? And when people say yes, I'll say, what did you do? Well, I got a. New job, right? This is like no other job. If you don't like it, go get. Another one, but make room for somebody. That wants to be here and I wanted. To be here, it's just it was just. So fun and. And and you know if if if if I could dial back, I'll say to where I was 15 years ago. Now like bring that all. I would do five more years, you know.

Peter

I want to jump in real quick. First off, love the positive attitude we have when Miles is on the on the podcast. Very similar attitude, poor guy. Guys, guys got his leg cut off. All kinds of bad things. Still happy as can be, but.

Speaker

Oh Oh yeah.

Thom

You can't say poor. Guy about miles. Don't ever say that. Or he is. He's doing great, you know, he's. Yeah. Yeah, not 4 miles good for miles.

Peter

Yeah, I want to. I want to take the opportunity to congratulate all of you. Unfortunately, I have to get off so, but but we're not done. You guys can continue on with with Jason, but big props to all of you, you. Guys were all I looked up to all of you when I. Was working and. You guys are all amazing. Congrats, healthy you. Guys like you. Said Tom. You won the lottery not only while you're working, but. Definitely in retirement as well. So Congrats to all. Of you, yeah.

Thom

Pete, before you go, I'll remember this when you were a brand new captain. You were on your first fire. I was second in you did your thing, blah, blah blah. I'm whatever operations and Rick and at the end of it, you came out and you go. I am surprised at how everybody who's coming in helps so. Much and I go. Of course, I mean everybody knows what they're. Doing and and. I always remember just you just said. I'm just surprised you. Know this is and. I yeah. This is actually really. Easy. You know just. Yeah, everybody wants to know so.

Peter

Where, where, where? Where was that fire? Where was? Where was that fire? What do? You remember? I don't remember.

Thom

You should remember it was your first one, but I don't, I don't remember. But I remember you saying that. Of course we're here to help you out. What do you need? And it was like, yeah, so it's. Fun it's really, really fun.

Peter

That was awesome. OK, I'm topping out. Thanks guys. Right.

Jason

Yeah. Hoffman, I agree with a lot of the stuff that you're saying. Keep things fun. This is my job, and it's a challenge. And you can always teach new people. I think, along with what Kramer said, with changing things up. One of the ways we can change it up and keep it interesting is to teach people, as you get more senior and as you get. More knowledge, so why now? Same question for you. Tips and tricks burn out how you got through it, how you can avoid it. Looking back on it, maybe what you. Would have done differently.

Tom

Interesting enough, you know, all three of us have had a different career. I spent a tremendous amount of time in being involved in the Union and it'd be hypocritical of me to say that I was not a giant fan of the of the schedule that we, that we own the 4090. *****, however, you know it also taught me some good lessons and help develop me that you know, you can't always get what you want, you know, and drive around with the bumper sticker. That said, don't give up your 6th day doesn't doesn't necessarily help the group. All it does is show that you're an insulin. You know, that being said, I think. As you digest all this stuff as well, if you remove yourself, Jay, I know you've been involved and and the you know the the course of years and you gauge your success on how well you do that work as well, you also lose. And sight of the fact that that this, this stuff is just another another. You know, another thing. You're another role. You're playing. The bottom line is that the Hoffmans and the cramers of this world that are just inherently happy people who look at what a positive thing they're doing. I think we all get a chance to do that from time to time. But we get mired too in the. Whole, you know this this thing gets this is crappy and this shouldn't be the way it is and blah, blah blah. We're that's just the nature of the beast. I like it. I look at all those things and I I look, I look to what the future of this of the fire service is going to be. I I think I think they'll have to. Adjust some sort of. Schedule going forward, whether it's a shorter shift, whether it's going more than you know, day, engine type, things those, those were things that completely saved my body when I was just beat crap, you know? And those are huge, huge things that help us make it to where we want to be, you know, and.

Jason

Well, just from what you just said about things that broke your body and and and saved your body and that you started this whole thing by saying you got to retire on your own terms. A lesser man would have retired with some of the injuries that you've gotten over the years from the fire department. So yeah, it was good to see that you had that option towards the end of being able to go home and get some sleep at night because personally, I can tell you that, you know, Hoffman, you talked about night calls and Tom you. Talked about that. A little bit as well. Why not? But the night calls for me are the hardest time. When you, when you did have a ton of wake ups. And you still are expected to perform at 100%. Those I think are the hardest for me to maintain a positive attitude and a clear mind. So I I do appreciate the fact that I think all of you guys right ended your careers on a day car a day engine or a day truck shift towards the end of your. Careers and it's. Interesting as we're kind of transitioning out of those maybe possibly temporary positions to getting away from those and what kind of effect that? As as far as longevity and and just the different, the different jobs that you can have while you're in there to maintain your health and longevity and your personal, Kramer talked about change. Changing things up and and judging your success by the positives and the wins that you get, whether it's from the. Union or whether? It's from calls or all that stuff so. I just find. That interesting last. Thought for me or maybe from you guys, I'd love to have. You guys, anything we didn't touch? On anything you want a round table, anything you want to bring up. This is your. This is your chance to let it out and to shine. Is there anything any of you guys want? To talk about or or. Say that we didn't ask you about.

Brian

One thing I I'll just end it with this one thing that getting back to what prevents burnout, a couple of things that you know advice I could give for the new guys that happened to me like one time I was getting burnout and compassion fatigue for like you know, the homeless and all that kind of stuff and. One thing that that really helped me is when Captain Hoffman would say, well, everybody's got a story. These aren't just homeless people. They aren't just weirdos. They aren't just mentally ill drug addicts. They all have a story and. And when you start digging in, you know with these folks and like we we we on this call at the Shell Gas station, you know this last year, Tom, I don't know if you remember Hoffman, but we started asking this lady what her story was and it's like she was kicked out of the, you know, she was like in 7-7 or eight different foster homes. And then at 18, she timed out. And then she really didn't have a lot of skills or money and kind of. Ended up homeless and. I think once you kind of get to know their story, that helps you mentally. Avoid compassion fatigue. You know, if you understand, these are humans, you know, and then and for me from a Christian perspective, it says, you know, there's a verse and proverbs that says he who mocks the poor shows contempt for their maker. It's like. God made these people. They're humans. Let's treat them with as much respect as we can get to know them. And then the other verse, you know, true religion is taking care of the widows and the orphans. And that's a lot of what we do. Is these ladies whose husbands died and all that kind of stuff? So if we're taking care of people, we're, you know, we're doing God's working away. And that helped me mentally get through some of the the compassion fatigue. And then also Sean Hughes once said, hey, try to make every call, no matter how.

Peter

Stupid and you? You.

Brian

Think the call is. Try to make someone smile or laugh or engage them in some kind of manner. It's positive for to represent Ventura City fire yourself. Whatever. So you got to have to play those mental games and and you know that helped me a lot. So in my career. So that's my little thing out on.

Speaker 6

Yeah, I like it. I.

Jason

Like it, Tom or Tom. Any parting words from you?

Tom

Guys I would I would say that I would do this all over 100% again without question. This was the the greatest. Vehicle for me to provide for my family to, to get satisfaction. All three of my boys like. They like the camaraderie that we have and I have my very, very best friends are from including you. Three are are from my previous occupation, which that's rare, you know, you just get to know people. You get to understand how. You know, and and living with people and spending so much time it it ends up it's a it's a great thing to do. It really, really is. But you have to have the perspective, right.

Jason

Go ahead, Tom Hoffman. I'd love to hear what you had to say.

Thom

Yeah. No, I agree with both, Brian. I do remember that was at Valentine and Victoria. Yeah. And what what Brian said? About, you know, fatigue and you know we're we're going to the river bottom again and these people keep calling and blah blah and we we talked a lot about especially lately mental illness or mental health in the fire service and we have got a support. Group, right. Like we got each other. We've got insurance. We've got money, we've got cars, we've got telephones. I always say, imagine having whatever issue you're going. Through it. But you got no house. You got no money. You got no car. You got no family. And So what do you do? You call 911 for help, and sometimes the people who show up are less than helpful, you know? So I I always kept that in my mind. I did work with the CIC group with the police and and social services and stuff for a lot of years and just got a. Lot of insight. On different people and different perspectives of like Brian said, where they came from and it's not their fault. I I inherently believe that no matter what you believe. Most people do the best they can, and if you compare everybody to yourself or to somebody who's doing better than a lot of people are going to look like they're not. Doing very much, but sometimes. Most I I would say across the board, most people are doing the best they can and sometimes the best they can do is. Lay on a on a lawn and sleep all day because they don't have motivation. They don't have family. They you know they don't have something that we had. So we take a lot of our own things that we that that we were given growing up for granted. When we look at people and we say, oh, this guy, you know, he always calls he's, he's doing this all. He's just a drunk, he's crazy, whatever. But you got to realize that's probably the best he could do. I I think that, like Tom said, I would recommend this career to anybody because it gives you a whole lot of insight on. People and people are what, realistically, make the world turn around, and you can't. You can't. You can't dislike a whole group for no reason. You got to look, you got to look at people and I like to think if you look at the similarities between you and somebody else, the differences are going to appear. But if you only look for the differences, you're never going to see the similarities and you're not going to. You're not going to have an opportunity to know somebody so.

Jason

I appreciate that. I think that's probably good advice to end the podcast on. I want to thank you guys for coming on. I know this is not really any of the three of you. Favorite thing that you were looking forward to, but yeah, it was really cool to get you guys on here to kind of memorialize some of those stories and some of your advice as guys grow up and get older and it is very surreal for me to look at the screen and see you, you know, Tom Wendell, I did most of my career either with you. Or you were mentoring me or teaching me in some way. And man, I can't appreciate that enough. Hoffman, you got on the floor just before I did. A year or two, maybe before I did. And Kramer, you and I started together. So. You know, I say all that to say, man, you guys are so much older than me, so I appreciate you just being older than me for. No, just. Kidding. It was fun, man. It was it was fun catching up with you guys. We'll see you around. I I'm super excited to be able to see you guys when we go to Topa top or we go to Red Engine and and to be able to catch up with you guys and you guys are right man. This is a family that we have and it was cool. To hang out.

Thom

Maybe we go to Topa? Topa for your congratulations, party, Jason. Yeah, that's right, Chief. That's right.

Jason

Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate that.

Brian

Yeah, that's going to be great for you, Jason. You're gonna do a. Good job. I know. Alright, thank you guys have a.

Jason

Great day. We'll we'll talk soon.

Peter

Jason, that was a good chat we had with the two Toms and Brian, good to see them wind down their careers and. Brought back a ton of memories because you and I both worked closely with those guys for a lot a lot of years, but it was good to send them on their way into retirement this way, which is is something new for us.

Jason

Yeah, it's very cool to have three firefighters who are retiring, who are still healthy and able to enjoy their retirement. We shared some fun stories, had some laughs together, shared some serious times and some calls they went through. And, you know, it's very indicative of a lot of our careers that we go through.

Peter

Yeah. Yeah. Congrats, big Congrats to those guys. Hopefully they they are able to watch this episode 20 years from now and they've had a long full retirement and they can get a few laughs out of it. So thanks Jason for your time as always.

Tom

Yeah, that.

Jason

Yeah, that's the goal. Have a good week.